Wide hurdler question

Hi all,

when doing the wide hurdeler coach says something like; goal is to take center of the chest straight down the leg. 

For (tight) me, i do not feel the stretch when i rotate this much, i do feel the stretch better if i take center of chest pretty much in between bent- and straight leg. Why is this?What version should i pick for now?

Best,, Jonas 

My guess is, when the chest is between the legs, it's more like a middle split or pancake. Do you feel the stretch in the groin or hamstring in this case? Maybe a little bit both? Chest down the straight leg really emphasizes the hamstring stretch of the straight leg, which is the focus of the front split series. I'd say stick with what coach says in the video, square those hips, and face the straight leg, instead of letting the body drift towards the middle..

Hey Jonas

I don't know as of your angle if your in apt or not but try to turn more your hips out in this case.  As Jin's saying, going in the middle will not isolate your hamstring.  Tell us how it feels!

Hey guys. You are absolutely right, when center of my chest point between my legs I feel more stretch in the groin (like in pancake) BUT also more hamstring.

when i try to center my chest over the straight leg(bottom pic) then i dont feel the stretch anywere,  more like im twisting in a unnatural way, and i guess some adductors too. 

Coach actually says: ”GOAL is to go down chest/straight leg”. Read goal. So maybe this Will come when i get more flexible? 

At the moment im still using a yoga block under the glute of the straight leg. 

By the way im in APT in both pics.

i appreciate your feedback @Jin Liu & @Étienne Lajeunesse

18 minutes ago, Jonas Berglund said:

Hey guys. You are absolutely right, when center of my chest point between my legs I feel more stretch in the groin (like in pancake) BUT also more hamstring.

when i try to center my chest over the straight leg(bottom pic) then i dont feel the stretch anywere,  more like im twisting in a unnatural way, and i guess some adductors too. 

Coach actually says: ”GOAL is to go down chest/straight leg”. Read goal. So maybe this Will come when i get more flexible? 

At the moment im still using a yoga block under the glute of the straight leg. 

By the way im in APT in both pics.

 

i appreciate your feedback @Jin Liu & @Étienne Lajeunesse

 

A good pancake requires good hamstring flexibility in addition to hip flexibility. So it's not surprising you feel hamstring while lowering down your chest between the legs. Since the goal is the focus on the hamstring, I suggest square those hips as much as you can, and lower your chest down as much as you can to feel the stretch in the hamstring. You mentioned you feel it as a unnatural twist to face the straight leg, maybe this is because your bent leg is pulling your body the other way. If you bring the bent leg in a bit, maybe you can lower down more facing the straight leg and feel the stretch in the hamstring more?

I think Jin is right. How are your swivel hips? If you have poor internal rotation at the hip (like most of us, initially), it will be harder to position the bent leg further backwards (which requires internal rotation at the hip joint - the inner side of the upper leg needs to rotate towards the floor). This means that it will be more difficult to square your hips, which in turn means that in order to get the chest in the direction of the straight leg you need to twist your upper body. As the focus needs to be on the hamstring, it's probably best to bring in the bent leg a bit until you are able to square your hips. Then you can work on stretching the hamstring and improving internal rotation at the same time!

The problem with some stretches is that getting into the correct position may already be a stretching exercise in itself good luck!

3 hours ago, Michaël Van den Berg said:

I think Jin is right. How are your swivel hips? If you have poor internal rotation at the hip (like most of us, initially), it will be harder to position the bent leg further backwards (which requires internal rotation at the hip joint - the inner side of the upper leg needs to rotate towards the floor). This means that it will be more difficult to square your hips, which in turn means that in order to get the chest in the direction of the straight leg you need to twist your upper body. As the focus needs to be on the hamstring, it's probably best to bring in the bent leg a bit until you are able to square your hips. Then you can work on stretching the hamstring and improving internal rotation at the same time!

The problem with some stretches is that getting into the correct position may already be a stretching exercise in itself good luck!

@Michaël Van den Bergthis is great, my right leg IR is terrible, and obv so are my swirvel hip. 

my physio believes my IR rom is structural and mean its not so much i can do. However, i have seen some tiny amount of improvements so ill just keep working on that IR in a safe productive manner and see what happens.

When I do wide hurdler with left leg straight im able to get much deeper and its easier to center my chest over the straight leg. 

Internal Rotation -> that bitch!!! 

Now im tempted to start a new thread about How to improve Internal rotation. This is probably my biggest suck and imbalance left/right. 

@Jin Liureducing the distance between bent- and straight leg is a great advice. I have experimented with it and it Make centering the chest a littlebit easier. However, i still get the best hamstring stretch if i do wide hurdler with chest inbetween my legs. It hits groin aswell, but maybe this is not so terrible after all? @Alessandro Mainente, @Everett Carroll

@Jonas Berglund

What if you put yourself on chair or something higher?  Have you tried it?

@Jonas Berglund

I doubt that your internal rotation problem is structural (but I can't know for sure, of course). I'm an osteopathy student - many of my classmates are physios and we definitely learn a lot of tests and techniques that are not used by physiotherapists. So it might be interesting to consult an osteopath if there is one in your neighbourhood. Good luck!!

Try twisting to get the chest centered with the leg before bending forward toward the leg. Sometimes it helps to push up on the hands beside the hips to lift and straighten the torso before twisting. (It's a yoga thing, but it transfers.)

You do want this centered position because we are working toward front splits in this progression, so that straight leg should be directly in front of you, otherwise, as you've noticed by what's being stretched, we're working more toward mid splits. I picture a seated pike, but with one leg bent back, if that helps you find the position perhaps.

Your hips look uneven in the second pic (which has the better torso angle, IMHO) so sitting on a stretch block or step stool might help level you out, and settled into the position a little better if the hip tightness is what's blocking your goal position.

I'm curious how narrow hurdler is for you? For me, that one is more difficult.

6 hours ago, Jonas Berglund said:

Now im tempted to start a new thread about How to improve Internal rotation

Just search the forums, there are MANY great tips here… many of us had the internal rotation problem… I posted something about 90/90 sit in your free time, that helped me a lot.

1 hour ago, Jennifer Marie said:

 

I'm curious how narrow hurdler is for you? For me, that one is more difficult.

 

That one is more difficult for me too!! Less range & more "painful" than the wide hurdler for sure! But centering the chest wouldn't be a problem there.

23 hours ago, Étienne Lajeunesse said:

@Jonas Berglund

What if you put yourself on chair or something higher?  Have you tried it?

I have tryed it and unfortunatelly it doesnt help me. Compared to my hips - my hamstrings are quite flexible. I think the elevation Helps more if hamstring is the weak Link. Might be wrong but in my case, elevating myself in wide hurdler doesnt make anything better, its almost getting worse actually(strange huh?)

@Michaël Van den Bergyou just told me exactly what I wanted to hear. Ill def look out for an osteopat. If you know and are willing to share exercises or stretches for IR that would be absolutely great and appreciated.

@Suzanna McGeeI actually took your advice on 90/90 stretch a couple months back. I am sure its an awesome exercise for just standard tight hips. However in my case it was way to intense, i tryed elevate my glute and also my knee but it didnt feel healthy for me,  more like a Bone on bone grind. My hips are currently a mess.

@Jennifer Marie& @Jin Liu ill give this one a go. Like almost leaning back before i center my Center my chest? 

Narrow hurdler is No problem for me, like you mentioned the narrow one doesnt challenge the hips and this is the reason. I can def center the chest and feel the hamstring stretch in the narrow hurdler.

Guys, really appreciate all the advice and inputs from you.

On 2/27/2018 at 6:30 AM, Jonas Berglund said:

@Suzanna McGeeI actually took your advice on 90/90 stretch a couple months back. I am sure its an awesome exercise for just standard tight hips. However in my case it was way to intense, i tryed elevate my glute and also my knee but it didnt feel healthy for me,  more like a Bone on bone grind. My hips are currently a mess.

the 90/90 was so bad for me too. I was not able to sit straight. And only maybe for a few seconds and then switch side… suffering. But it's better now. Still not pleasant, but at least I don't need to lean on my hands. Just keep doing all this and it will get better. Sooner or later

On 2/27/2018 at 9:30 AM, Jonas Berglund said:

 

I actually took your advice on 90/90 stretch a couple months back. I am sure its an awesome exercise for just standard tight hips. However in my case it was way to intense, i tryed elevate my glute and also my knee but it didnt feel healthy for me,  more like a Bone on bone grind. My hips are currently a mess.

 

Hi Jonas. The 90/90 is a difficult position for most people and really not a good starting progression. Hip swivels are a good start but then when you try to move to 90/90 start on your elbow and perform active IR on that back leg. Over time you should be able to transition your elbow higher and higher until you are upright. This would be the position, his right arm is down on the elbow.

I have also found performing active hip IR from the frog stretch beneficial for me. The setup would look like this:

Looks like great advice to me, infact ill start doing this as often as i can. Static stretches daily, and the active stretches i guess we should have some off days for recovery?  

In the first pic (on 1 elbow) i still cant get both glutes to the floor. Is this still ok to hang out for time or should i use a block? 

2nd pic, def hits a spot for me. Massive thanks for sharing it, ill keep doing that active one!

I had to lean back on the elbows for Swivel Hips at first, but this did help and I can sit more like the demo video now. It does get better eventually. I'd been doing a variation of the 90/90 stretch from my physical therapist along with the modified swivel hips, and still do both a couple of times a week to keep up with this mobility. It's made my lifting better, so very much worth the extra time!

I'd never heard of the 90/90 stretch but I like it a lot! I looked it up and tried the Andreo Spina sequence shown here: https://www.onnit.com/academy/increase-hip-mobility/. I'm going to keep using it.

I also like the active IR in frog position. A variation that I started using a couple of weeks ago is active IR while sitting on a chair (simply sit straight with your legs together and rotate one lower leg outward and upward against gravity, without lifting the glute).

On 3/6/2018 at 8:38 AM, Jonas Berglund said:

Looks like great advice to me, infact ill start doing this as often as i can. Static stretches daily, and the active stretches i guess we should have some off days for recovery?  

 

In the first pic (on 1 elbow) i still cant get both glutes to the floor. Is this still ok to hang out for time or should i use a block? 

2nd pic, def hits a spot for me. Massive thanks for sharing it, ill keep doing that active one!

 

With light movements like these I have people do static stretching and then some active reps every day if they’d like. I consider it more gaining neural control of the range then strength. So you don’t need a lot of time to recover. 

You most likely wont get the hip on the floor in the 90/90 on elbow. Your pelvis is tilted sideways in this position so don’t worry about that.

Good luck!