Progress

I have been following the foundation strength training program for a while, but I am not seeing progress.  I am sleeping (NEVER less than 6 hours, usually 7) , I am eating healthy (healthy fats, vegetables, grass-fed meat, etc) and I understand things take time, and I am following the recommended schedule created by this site (I started out going through all movements every day).  Are there any strong recommendations or mistakes others of us have made in the past?  

I've moved from 4 X 12 push ups to 4 X 15 pushups in a year, barely finishing the sets with perfect form.  That is just one example, over all I haven't seen much progress.

Considerations:

1.) I run 2-3 times a week

2.) I rock climb 2-3 times a week as well.

3.) I've been consistent.  VERY consistent in stretching and these movements, and have taken only 1 week off since the beginning of April.

Hey Neil, 

We're going to help you get to the bottom of this. How long are each of your 2-3 runs and what type of climbing are you doing? Just estimate session length and number of problems/routes. 

My idea, for now, is to suggest you take a week off from GST, stretching included. When you return to training, do each Foundation workout (upper, lower, and core) 2x/week while reducing your running and climbing to 1-2x/week. Try that for 4-8 weeks and then, if it seems you still need more recovery, we can drop your core training back to 1x per week. 

Sleeping more than 7 hours per night will also help but I understand that is not always possible. 

I also love to run and climb and use GST to support those activities. However, you want to be improving and recovering. If you're not, a change must be made. Since everyone's recovery is different, this may take some time to find the sweet spot, but reassessing every month or two is important, especially if you're plateauing.  

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and getting more details regarding your running/climbing. 

Everett,

- My runs are just 30 minutes, I don't go for a distance or speed, and focus on form, and hitting that feeling of "I can do this forever." 

- Climbing is usually an hour of either bouldering with 2-3 minutes rest between each (I keep my eye on the clock) so, maybe 15-20 problems, OR I'll just stay on a wall and climb non-stop for two 30 minute sessions (never more than 3 times a week if I am doing that).

In two weeks I'll be forced to take a week off of training and will start your recommendation of 2 X a week on the foundation series and start moving my average sleep a night to over 7 hours.

Perfect, Neil. That all sounds good. Enjoy the rest week and please keep us updated on how the new schedule feels. I have a good feeling it'll help you bust that plateau!

Ok, I've started this, picked up thrive nutrition, and have made movements towards 7 hours of sleep a night. Concerning programming, is there any issue of doing core and upper body foundation on the same day twice a week?

If that works best for your schedule then go for it, Neil. Keep a close eye on your recovery and don't be afraid to make an adjustment after a month or so if it ends up begin too demanding. 

Let us know how it goes!!!

also make sure your eating enough kcals to support all your training. Maybe up the carbs to help replenish glycogen stores.

Hi Neil,

What also helped me to progress was to come back to previous progressions for a week or so.  Working them with full intensity got me to break some plateaus of my current elements.  

On 8/6/2017 at 2:27 PM, Neil Strickland said:

I am eating healthy (healthy fats, vegetables, grass-fed meat, etc

Hey Neil,

When I first read this, I was wondering where the other powerhouse, energy fuels were. Then I noticed you started Thrive, so all appropriate resistant starches and dosing will keep your training progressions wired!

See you in the Thrive forum!

Neil, just a question. How old are you? 

Fatigue is fatigue no matter how well fueled you are, and age is a factor. 

Also "the feeling of being able to do this forever" is not much of a measure for running. Investing in a HRM will do wonders for identifying you zones and keeping you in recovery (if that is what you are aiming for). Phil Mafetone has some good ideas on various hr zones for training. 

Also HRV morning readings, get a chest monitor and use Elite HRV or similar  (light based hr sensors will smooth data, not what you want for HRV). 

All these things will give you a better indication of your fatigue. You have a fairly athletic schedule with not much direction in regards to volume vs recovery. Numbers will also help people on the forums give you some guidance. 

Hope this is helpful. 

Dan

On 9/21/2017 at 9:15 PM, Ryan Bailey said:

Hey Neil,

When I first read this, I was wondering where the other powerhouse, energy fuels were. Then I noticed you started Thrive, so all appropriate resistant starches and dosing will keep your training progressions wired!

See you in the Thrive forum!

Ryan, I had been living and loving the keto lifestyle, but if I want to see results like promised by the program, I need to follow GST recommendations. I have been making the adjustments with each step, so we'll see what happens!

On 9/21/2017 at 11:59 PM, Daniel Kiely said:

Neil, just a question. How old are you? 

Fatigue is fatigue no matter how well fueled you are, and age is a factor. 

Also "the feeling of being able to do this forever" is not much of a measure for running. Investing in a HRM will do wonders for identifying you zones and keeping you in recovery (if that is what you are aiming for). Phil Mafetone has some good ideas on various hr zones for training. 

Also HRV morning readings, get a chest monitor and use Elite HRV or similar  (light based hr sensors will smooth data, not what you want for HRV). 

All these things will give you a better indication of your fatigue. You have a fairly athletic schedule with not much direction in regards to volume vs recovery. Numbers will also help people on the forums give you some guidance. 

Hope this is helpful. 

Dan

Dan,

I am 31 years old.

I used to use heartmath's sensor for HRV reader; do you think it is too inaccurate? And when should I measure? Or was this more meant for the running aspect?

What other numbers should I provide to everyone helping for better advice?

thanks,

neil

On 28/09/2017 at 3:12 AM, Neil Strickland said:

I am 31 years old

Welcome to the bellcurve of performance. "Generally" peaks of performance are aged between 27-30 in my reading. For me, my understanding of this is that once you are past that point you can no longer just be a blunt instrument and train with volume. You now need to listen to your body more and give it the rest it wants. 

I don't believe that this means you have peaked in your physical prowess, I just believe that you now need to be smart with your training to get the gains that may have been previously, a by product of your more un structured training. 

Check out Elite HRV, download the app and get the free PDF, have a read it is a pretty good resource. I take my HRV in the morning after I have woken and taken a pee. I put on my chest strap while I stumble to the toilet. Open the app on your phone, then I will lay back down till my heart stabilises I will look at my phone to press the right buttons and then do my best to go back to sleep for the 2:30 reading. The more asleep you are the more accurate the reading. If you are thinking about your day etc it will give you a poor reading. Do it the same every morning.

This is useful over time as a trend curve and helps you understand what yesterday did to you today. Eg if I do hard intervals on day 1 Day 2 I am fatigued and if i do nothing I will be bottoming out day 3 but if I do a recovery run like 30min under 44 bpm I will be firing and ready again day 3. If my run takes me over that for any length of time, day 3 is trash. That is a cardio example. 

GB gives me a whole different response. But all the same If I score high on HRV and yet I 'feel' trashed I know that often that is mental fatigue and I will often push for a few extra sets to get me out of the funk.

On 28/09/2017 at 3:12 AM, Neil Strickland said:

use heartmath's sensor for HRV reader; do you think it is too inaccurate?

I am guessing the sensor is fine, it looks like one of the finger based units. But I am guessing you don't run with it? For morning it is prob fine, as I said you are just looking for a bit of an indication of your recovery. As for your running head over to https://philmaffetone.com he is big with the whole low carb thing as well. Get your MAF number and run with a HRM set with an alert for that number. This is not some sort of magical number, just a good zone for additional fitness. But it also gives you one more number guide your effort. If you run at 44 bpm and cover 5km in 30min or 3km in 30min your effort has been the same but your have had to move much slower not to stress your heart, which is A measure of recovery. 

So this is my fine print. I am a bit of a spreadsheet guy. I love a pie chart and data and I are friends. I have now over 450 days uninterrupted HRV morning recordings and I am now starting to predict the numbers 50% of the time. I have a very stressful life that influences my results and my recovery, so I like a bit of empirical data on my recovery. This is by no means the only way or even the best way it is A way that works for me. 

Lastly, every fitness trainer/ coach/ doctor/ medicine man or successful athlete  I have ever spoken to has listed 1. Sleep 2. Hydration 3. Fuel, as the most important aspects of fitness. I have even had some refuse to start training until those are 'fixed' as any efforts made with these basics broken is wasting time. 

It sounds like you are ok with fuelling, do you know what your sleep cycle is? Or how much water you have drunk today? I have a good spreadsheet you could have a lot at! (That is a little tongue in cheek, I don't really have my sleep on a spreadsheet, not since my garmin started taking care of all that for me)

Alright- so, I have moved a little since I started making changes, which is great!

changes I've made:

- foundation 2x a week (thanks Everett)

- sleeping no less than 7 hours a night (the biggest pain with the biggest results)

- thrive nutrition

- I have stopped running, (but I see on the forums a recommendation of 3 times a week, at 2 miles at a time) and climb just for playing around/fun a few times a week.

My question at this point: should there be a deload/rest week as per the original recommendation? I was thinking something like 6 on and 1 off.

Hi Neil,

Good job for the changes you've made!

Deload weeks are necessary on my point of view.  I know that F1 doesn't suggest any, but, as I remember, it was due to the lack of regularity practitioners trained.  But, if you train regularly,  the body would need it.  

I kept the original deload concept and do it every 3 weeks for the hardest elements.  You can try finding what's best for you.

But again, wait for the coaches answer, it's just my point of view.

Hope it helps

To play the role of Devil's advocate: have you considered that maybe you're not training enough?

Thirty minute runs, some climbing + GST a couple times a week seems pretty mild -I'm skeptical that the volume you have been doing could be considered over-training, especially if your sleep and nutrition is on-point. Unless there is an underlying condition that isn't being acknowledged. GST 2x /week should be a minimum.

With due consideration for deloads and following the program as prescribed I propose that your body can take more than you might expect and that it needs to be stressed in order to adapt. 

Do you feel gassed during your daily life? If yes, seek medical help, if not, work harder.

2 times Foundation a week is not the minimum, but the maximum for the vast majority of the people and its definetely more than enough @Dustyevsky Silvester. 3x times a week you need a super fast recovery, not to mention training also handstands and strecht which also needs recovery.

Coach responded to one of my posts with this in regards to the deload weeks. Seems that if you are dedicated then a deload would be advisable. Sadly I fit into the other category. 

On 23/09/2017 at 12:15 AM, Coach Sommer said:

Hi Daniel,

Good questions.

- Deload weeks were removed in F1 because the VAST majority of F1 students were already inconsistent with their training.  As such they already had plenty of unintentional deloads built into their training.

- Notice also that there is no longer a mandatory schedule that must be maintained.  The students are now in complete control of their own schedule.  If you need a deload, take one.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

@Neil Strickland you may also be interested in this paper:

"Low carbohydrate, high fat diet impairs exercise economy and negates the performance benefit from intensified training in elite race walkers".

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/JP273230/full

Now, 1) I have no idea what Thrive prescribes, and 2) GST is not racewalking, but it is intense.  Maybe (maybe!) some dietary changes are needed as well.

@Dustyevsky Silvester, I think the recommendation is to push yourself in the work out on those two days, but it is not recommended to go much more as Antonio said. I am generally following GST curriculum and still adding something else in my day, whether running, climbing, crawling ala Ido portal.

@Daniel Kiely, I think I'll try 6 on and off on the 7th for this "cycle." Unless I am told that is an awful idea. Also, how do you plan your reload week? Go back a few levels?

@Nick Murray, I appreciate that, and I think thrive has me covered!

On 11/10/2017 at 12:13 PM, Neil Strickland said:

My question at this point: should there be a deload/rest week as per the original recommendation?

I meant my initial suggestion to mean take only a single week off, since it sounded like you were in need of some solid recovery. Beyond that, follow the course programming. Deloads will be introduced later into your training.