Front lever - negatives to replace isometric holds

Hey guys,

I read an article written by Tyler Hass saying that working negatives could be the most beneficial way of achieving a front lever. His statement was backed up by several reliable sources. I'm not sure if he meant that they could replace isometric holds or not but I was just curious about what everyone thought of this. Currently I am unable to do controlled negatives in full front lever but can with a half lever (one leg in one leg extended). Thanks

God bless

I think slow 7-10s negatives from inverted hang through front lever position to hang are SUPERIOR to isometric holds for front lever. At least from my experience and talking to others who have obtained the skill as well.

Usually go with 2-3 reps per with 3-5 sets and that's your pulling work for the day.

So, if I can't do a full front lever negative, would training negatives with one leg in and one extended still be superior to isometric holds? I appreciate your help by the way!

ooden said:

So, if I can't do a full front lever negative, would training negatives with one leg in and one extended still be superior to isometric holds? I appreciate your help by the way!

I've found you can usually negative with the progression that is one up from the isometric hold you're working on.

So if you're on tuck you can eccentric with adv tuck, adv tuck you can eccentric with straddle or one leg, if you isometric with straddle you can generally do full straight body eccentric.

I think slow 7-10s negatives from inverted hang through front lever position to hang are SUPERIOR to isometric holds for front lever. At least from my experience and talking to others who have obtained the skill as well.

Really?

I cannot say I agree with you here.

First, the fastest way to gain strength at a certain joint angle is to work at that joint angle.

Second, usualy the eccentric work you are talking about, with 'one progression above what you can hold isometricly', is performed in poor form and not under enough control throughout the full range of motion in order to produce optimal results.

The main problem with platues in front lever development, (and other upper body strength work) is a weak link in the scapulae retrectors and external rotator muscles. A quick 6-8 weeks of special attention to these areas and your front lever will usualy show considerable improvement. Mean while, I suggest to follow coach Sommer's isometric work for the static position.

By the way, 99% of the Front Levers achieved in gymnastics are the result of spotting work. I dont say it is the optimal way to get there, it is just the reality of gymnastics coaching around the world.

Ido.

Ido, what specific exercises have you found strengthen the scapular retractors and external rotators most effectively? thanks

Ido Portal said:

I think slow 7-10s negatives from inverted hang through front lever position to hang are SUPERIOR to isometric holds for front lever. At least from my experience and talking to others who have obtained the skill as well.

Really?

I cannot say I agree with you here.

First, the fastest way to gain strength at a certain joint angle is to work at that joint angle.

Second, usualy the eccentric work you are talking about, with 'one progression above what you can hold isometricly', is performed in poor form and not under enough control throughout the full range of motion in order to produce optimal results.

The main problem with platues in front lever development, (and other upper body strength work) is a weak link in the scapulae retrectors and external rotator muscles. A quick 6-8 weeks of special attention to these areas and your front lever will usualy show considerable improvement. Mean while, I suggest to follow coach Sommer's isometric work for the static position.

By the way, 99% of the Front Levers achieved in gymnastics are the result of spotting work. I dont say it is the optimal way to get there, it is just the reality of gymnastics coaching around the world.

Ido.

I agree with weak posterior delt, retractors and external rotators can be limiting factors.

From what I've experienced and seen in a lot of the people I've given advice with a majority of eccentrics with some isometrics has been superior for building front lever. Shrug. Maybe it's cause I had a decent strength base before actually trying to hold front lever.. maybe not. I can't say the same for everyone else I'd recommended it for though.

There is no one single exercise, but here is a favorite superset I like to use for scapulae retractors:

A1 Front lever rows 3-5 reps/31X3

rest 10 sec

A2 Supinated Body Rows (hardest version you can handle) 5 reps / 31X3

rest 10 sec

A3 Heavy Band Pull Apart 8 reps / 31X3 (Dueser band or a heavy iron woody band, not the pilates stuff)

Rest 180 sec and repeat 3-5 total sets

* In the front lever rows I consider it a rep only if you break 90 degrees in the elbow joint and returned to complete lockout.

* In the Body Rows - chest must be held against the bar for the duration specified. There is no 'almost' - you are either pregnant or not.

* Make sure you concetrate in A1 on keeping the scapulaes retracted at all times, at A2 and A3 - take the scapulae first from protracted to retracted and then move into the movement, in each start of a repetition.

Ido.

I'm with Ido on this one for the most part. I do believe that negatives have value, but they should not be the focus of training. For one thing, eccentric contractions take longer to recover from. Secondly, as Ido mentioned, there tend to be issues with form. I don't think this is as big a deal so long as you're careful to perfect your form on one or two sets of negatives, and spend the majority of your time with the static holds on the rings and isokinetic work related to the front lever.

The negatives DID help me get my front lever, but I used them as a small part of an overall scheme, and I still only had like an 8 second FL at the best, and probably only the first 4-5 seconds were really great form. Don't fall victim to silver bullet syndrome, you will always perform at your best when you use a multi-faceted approach. It took me 4 months to achieve the time that I am quoting. That's fairly quick, and it certainly helped that I was very, very strong to begin with, but my attention to the well-rounded training approach is what, I believe, allowed me to progress as quickly as I did.

Edit: Ok, Ido just posted this latest post above me. I have a question, for your 31x3, in what order are your numbers?

For example, to my mind, it looks like 3 seconds from FL to the top of the row, 1 second at the top, go down fast, and hold the FL for 3 seconds. Is that right?

I use the numerical representation developed by coach Ian King (and further popularized by coach Charles Poliquin):

First number - Eccentric

Second num - Pause after eccentric

Third num - Concentric

Fourth num - Pause after concentric

Ido.

Ido, thank you for your input. If one were focusing their attention on obtaining the front lever, how would you program the superset you mentioned with the front lever isometric holds most effectively.

Thanks Ido!