Mobility mastery question

Hey!

I'll start my question with an example :

If we take the pHS PE1 mobility, inverted pike pull, do we need to press completely in full ROM in the 5 consecutive sets or only on the last one for mastery? I'm asking because every time I do it, I go a bit further on every set and I'm not far from the ROM asked on the last one.  This question could apply on any mobility exercise.

Thank you

Hi Etienne,

As always you ask interesting questions. The full range of mobility would need to be demonstrated for the 5 consecutive sets to demonstrate mastery. If you compare it to the PE it would be like saying if I manage to get 1 repetition in my last set then have I demonstrated mastery.

Mastery is mastering the element for the full range for every rep of every set.

Keep up the good work on your training and also the contributions you are making to the forum 

Hi Darin,

Looks like I have some work to do

I always commit to what I believe and what I love doing!  If I have the opportunity to contribute, well... I take it!

Thank you very much!

How about you put in some warmup sets of this or a related iM before you do your work sets. You might just get to mastery much quicker...

That's not a bad idea, I can try this!  Would it really work?

2 hours ago, Kai Ewert said:

How about you put in some warmup sets of this or a related iM before you do your work sets. You might just get to mastery much quicker...

13 hours ago, Étienne Lajeunesse said:

 

That's not a bad idea, I can try this!  Would it really work?

 

Try and see for yourself…  You won't know until you try  :-) 

Of course it will work. As you said, you reach mastery ROM on set 5, so if you do 4 sets as warmup, your first work set will be at mastery ROM. That may be too much to handle for another four sets though, thus my recommendation to try another warmup+stretch...

A little trial and error on this is pretty much how i developed my daily warmup  / limber

2 hours ago, Kai Ewert said:

Of course it will work. As you said, you reach mastery ROM on set 5, so if you do 4 sets as warmup, your first work set will be at mastery ROM. That may be too much to handle for another four sets though, thus my recommendation to try another warmup+stretch...

I understand your point, but isn't the goal of mastery to completely do the exercise as required without preparing it before starting?

2 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

A little trial and error on this is pretty much how i developed my daily warmup  / limber

Hi Jon!

Do you have a specific warm-up/limber that you do in every training or do you change it once in a while?

7 hours ago, Étienne Lajeunesse said:

Hi Jon!

Do you have a specific warm-up/limber that you do in every training or do you change it once in a while?

I've developed one that I do regularly yes; comprising mostly integrated mobility elements which I found difficult or slow to respond. There's a few posts by Alessandro, Leo and myself on putting this together IIRC, but if i started over I would base off the Fundamentals daily limber and tweak from there

7 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

I've developed one that I do regularly yes; comprising mostly integrated mobility elements which I found difficult or slow to respond. There's a few posts by Alessandro, Leo and myself on putting this together IIRC, but if i started over I would base off the Fundamentals daily limber and tweak from there

Ok, so, like you said, it's basically trial and error to find what's best for us... I'm currently doing the movement series warm-up, trying to improve them, but I'm interested to learn more about what you've put on this subject.

17 hours ago, Étienne Lajeunesse said:

I understand your point, but isn't the goal of mastery to completely do the exercise as required without preparing it before starting?

I am not 100% sure as I am not a coach here. Though that is not what Darin said. Also, if you look ahead you can see that the iMs for PE2 and 3 are variations on the iM for PE1. So you will still be working on the same stretch for a while. So the goal could be do all sets with full ROM after extensive warmup for PE1-iM, after a shorter warmup for PE2-iM, and "cold" (the whole thing gets a bit absurd if you try and decide what counts for that) for PE3-iM. Not saying that is the holy grail, just putting out there that you should feel ok taking some control and responsibility for your own training as well, even as so much is done for you with the GB courses.

1 hour ago, Kai Ewert said:

I am not 100% sure as I am not a coach here. Though that is not what Darin said. Also, if you look ahead you can see that the iMs for PE2 and 3 are variations on the iM for PE1. So you will still be working on the same stretch for a while. So the goal could be do all sets with full ROM after extensive warmup for PE1-iM, after a shorter warmup for PE2-iM, and "cold" (the whole thing gets a bit absurd if you try and decide what counts for that) for PE3-iM. Not saying that is the holy grail, just putting out there that you should feel ok taking some control and responsibility for your own training as well, even as so much is done for you with the GB courses.

Yeah, well, I don't have any problem taking some responsability over my workout, and I'm really open to it!  But I just thought that by putting an iM as mastery because we prepared it in the warm-up, it would be (and feel) "cheating".  But, if we can work this way, I am already in

If I were to attain mastery without any sort of warmup, I would be stuck in my IMs for a very long time  For HS1 & 2 IMs I start with at least one easy set before and after my wrist warmups. I feel my shoulders take extra long to warmup but that is most probably because of terrible mobility and negative patterns developed over years. Although I do feel my shoulders are slowly but surely starting to open up.

I see, now, where you guys are going with the mobility warm-up!  I have to admit that it's very useful after all. I have experienced today! Thanks to clearing me out!

Excellent! Nothing beats actually doing it ;)!

Hey, while we're in the mobility mastery topic, concerning weight mobility, do we need to increase the weight on every exercise that has one?  For example, the MN PE1 iM, let's say we've mastered it with a 5 pounds (current weight I use), do we have to increase it?

The answer is the ever-fitting, ever-frustrating "it depends"...

There are some iMs that you are supposed to continue in your warmup and gradually increase the weight, to limits that vary from iM to iM and sometimes those suggestions also change. For Jefferson curls for example, I've seen both half bodyweight and bodyweight as longterm goals. Others to keep doing include dislocates. I believe there is a thread somewhere where someone tried to compile the numbers that have come up in various threads.

Some other iMs get superseded by the iMs after them, such as the hurdler iMs in the SL progressions... 

9 hours ago, Kai Ewert said:

The answer is the ever-fitting, ever-frustrating "it depends"...

There are some iMs that you are supposed to continue in your warmup and gradually increase the weight, to limits that vary from iM to iM and sometimes those suggestions also change. For Jefferson curls for example, I've seen both half bodyweight and bodyweight as longterm goals. Others to keep doing include dislocates. I believe there is a thread somewhere where someone tried to compile the numbers that have come up in various threads.

Some other iMs get superseded by the iMs after them, such as the hurdler iMs in the SL progressions... 

Hi Kai, so it's up to us to choose where we want to reach with whatever exercise we want to improve?  I know, like you said, that dislocates and Jefferson curls are very popular, but for some, it's just ok to let them on the side after mastery with a certain weight?

Etienne, well first of all it's good to remember that any and all the training we do is up to us to choose - even the GB course don't come with obligation or policing

That being said, I feel there are at least three different kinds of students of these courses:

1. The casual students, who make pick a thing here and another there from the programming

2. The regular students, who will follow the program as prescribed

3. The eager students, who try to go beyond just the course materials by making extensive use of the forum to learn more about how Coach Sommer would want them to progress. 

It's the eager students who have gone and tried to find out what iMs to continue to improve and to what limit. Maybe there is input in that direction at the seminars as well. 

As to dropping certain iMs, the general recommendation is to keep doing ones that felt hard to you as well as some staples. Others which are clearly superseded by more intense versions of the same stretch I feel it's safe to drop. Some others you may just want to keep in or cycle in and out into your warmup, for example the dynamic stretches. I'd say if you are thinking about all this you are in category 3, and if you are in category 3 you should also be ready to take some responsibility for your own customizations, be willing to experiment, and willing to trust your own judgement with some of this

7 hours ago, Kai Ewert said:

Etienne, well first of all it's good to remember that any and all the training we do is up to us to choose - even the GB course don't come with obligation or policing

That being said, I feel there are at least three different kinds of students of these courses:

1. The casual students, who make pick a thing here and another there from the programming

2. The regular students, who will follow the program as prescribed

3. The eager students, who try to go beyond just the course materials by making extensive use of the forum to learn more about how Coach Sommer would want them to progress. 

It's the eager students who have gone and tried to find out what iMs to continue to improve and to what limit. Maybe there is input in that direction at the seminars as well. 

As to dropping certain iMs, the general recommendation is to keep doing ones that felt hard to you as well as some staples. Others which are clearly superseded by more intense versions of the same stretch I feel it's safe to drop. Some others you may just want to keep in or cycle in and out into your warmup, for example the dynamic stretches. I'd say if you are thinking about all this you are in category 3, and if you are in category 3 you should also be ready to take some responsibility for your own customizations, be willing to experiment, and willing to trust your own judgement with some of this

Well, I think that resumes everything!  I hope to be in category 3 since everything here inspired me to push further out of the programming. 

Like the mastery, I'll test things.

It's been a hell of a message to say : take risks and adjust afterwards.

Thank you very much for your time kai