stretching theory and holding time

Hi,

I would like to understand more the concepts in all the courses.

So here I am asking about stretching.

I read 2.5 books (yeah didnt finish the last) on the topic recently. They were published in different years and their approach was totally oposite. There are in german, so i guess stating the names doesn't matter.

I get that during the years theory has evolved and thus I wondered if people have kind of a list of good (up to date) resources to learn from.

Now to the specific questions:

The design of middle splits.

I take it side to side squats are mainly a warmup.

but then i dont understand why we a stationary exercise (standing pancake) immediately afterwards, does it also function as a warmup?

Also here I wonder if with the standing pancake i do the same (regarding the legs) like with the isometric middle hold except not going as wide?

About the timing of the holds.

most stretches seem to be for either 90s or 120s with some for 60s. Is there a different effect/goal with these different times? Does it have to do with muscle groups being stretches that maybe are bigger than others and thus need more time?

Recently i met many people swearing on 'ballistic stretches'. In the stretch series there seems to be no such stretches. Does this mean there is no value in them or there is no value for beginners in them? I remember that in chinese martial arts they use ballistic stretches a lot. But they do it after holding weighted stretches and also do a lot of stance work. Maybe this is different then?

Hi Michael, 

Thank you for your message, great questions. 

The Middle Splits side to side squats has many benefits. This exercise demonstrates good Achilles tendon mobility as well as strength and mobility in the hips. Many athletes have a hard time bringing their hips past knee level and the goal is to lower all the way down. The standing pancake is a great stretch to open up the hamstrings as well as release the back. This stretch is treated the same as the isometric middle split hold, making sure you are engaging the quads will help release your hamstrings.

Once mastery has been met with these exercises they can and are used in a warm up. 

Great awareness on the timing of the stretches. Typically it takes your body 30-40 seconds to get out of the flight or fight response and allow your body to relax into the stretch. Some muscle groups or stronger tendons can use longer time to open up. 

Michael, I am not familiar with ballistic stretches so I can not address this question for you. 

My understanding on ballistic stretches is that they are an outdated method and far more likely to result in injury that static stretching (particularly in individuals with very little flexibility)

when I did gymnastics and other activities as a child, nearly all stretches involved bouncing of some sort. Over the years I've seen it's use decline in various sports and virtually all sports I've been involved in over the past ten years seem to use static stretching.

martial arts may be different due to their nature. Personally, I would avoid ballistic stretches entirely if not thoroughly warmed up.

Bouncing it is more suitable for kids who have tissues with good response to the elastic deformation of the fascia, tendon and connective tissue. this does not apply to adults. quite simple.

Hello Michael,

Ballistic stretching properly utilized is tremendously effective.  But is generally reserved for more advanced students.  Definitely not recommended for beginners who are more fragile, tend to over indulge and hurt themselves unnecessarily.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Definitely can attest to the effectiveness of ballistic stretching for adults. But for and online course that has beginners as the main audience, they are not a good choice as Coach points out. 

Consistency is so important with stretching, and getting hurt or extremely sore (ballistics will do that) will not help with consistency. 

It is also important to not over analyse and just start something and then do it (with consistency). I have been doing the middle split series weekly (just about) and am pleasantly surprised by the steady progress I've seen with it.

Hello everybody,

Thanks for your replies!

On 4/5/2017 at 2:30 AM, Kai Ewert said:

It is also important to not over analyse and just start something and then do it (with consistency)

This post is not about overanalysing or doing one method over the other. It is about understanding the concepts while training the materials of the course consistently.

Preferably an understanding beyond 'it worked'

I am glad you are not in paralysis by analysis then...

Would you mind posting the names of the books? Plenty of Germans on the courses/forums, including myself. 

A resource that I have heard quoted many times is Thomas Kurz, he has a book and videos. His approach to middle splits seems to work quickly if it does, but it doesn't work for everyone. 

For ballistic stretches, you will have to resort to the internet or old martial arts literature. 

Understanding stretching in the sense of what really goes on and what is the best method for which person is an ongoing thing, so you will not find answers that are accepted by all or inclusive of all ideas. 

There are some other resources but some of them apparently are not welcome on this forum. You can pm me for my email address if you are interested.

I'd like to educate myself a little more on all the important stuff too, I'm interested in:

- basic anatomy

- how muscles and passive structures work

- how training and stretching works

After researching a little, there's a lot of conflicting information out there when it comes to stretching etc - can you guys perhaps recommend a few basic pieces of literature? Is there something like a go-to book for novices like me who want to learn about the topic?

Thank you for any recommendations!

Stretching is an evolving field of understanding at this time, so you will not be able to read one standard book on the subject. Approaches and the ideas as to why they work vary widely, and often the proponents of different schools of thought are not open to what others have to say. 

Are you interested in sports other than GST? Often a more thorough book on training for particular sports will have an introductory part that will give you the basics of exercise physiology, without the overwhelm that might result from going directly to a textbook of exercise physiology...

The best book for the stretch it is neurophysiology book, understand how reflex work it is the basic instruction.

Awesome subject, 

A lot of the stretches in the lower body stretch series emphasize an antagonist (muscle on the opposite side of the joint) to enable the relaxation of the agonist or muscle being stretched. This in particular is utilizing a neurological reflex that provides inhibition onto the muscle being stretched that enables it to relax further. It is referred to as reciprocal inhibition.

This is just one example of the several techniques that I have noticed being used. 

One question that comes to mind about the adaptations that occur when we are getting more flexible is what is actually adapting. Is it the connective tissue itself that is remodeling or is the nervous system enabling those ranges as we develop control and strength within those new found ranges? Or a combination of the two? In my neurophysiology course that I am currently taking at university they are saying that gains in flexibility are due to increase stretch tolerance. I have a very hard time believing this and was curious if anyone had any insight on the adaptations that are occurring? 

Also last question in regards to the programming. Ive noticed especially in the front split that there is a lot of "passive" stretching besides utilizing 1a reciprocal inhibition, there isnt much of anything in regards to developing compression, or utilizing those new ranges of hip flexion that we have opened up. I know exercises like pike pulses come up in foundations 2 but am curious as to why the delay? Or is our foundations 1 mana work taking care of this? Just curious of the balance between passive and active mobility work. 

My intuition says that the front split stretch series opens up new ranges with passive work and our strength work in foundations 1 solidifies these ranges by developing strength and control. 

Just some of my thoughts and questions in regards to this topic