Neglected, or given less attention, isolated muscle groups in GB

Coaches and Advanced Gymnasts--

Are there any specific isolated muscle groups that are neglected (or given less attention) in GB? Muscles that aren't required to be aesthetically big in order to perform well, GST wise? For example, I have heard Coach Sommer mention that elite gymnasts need to keep their legs somewhat small in order to be successful, and therefore GST workouts aren't tailored towards adding size to the legs (quads).

I know I am still less than halfway through the F1 course, but prior to starting GB 2 months ago, I was doing powerlifting and bodybuilding workouts 4-6 times per week (compound movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, and isolation exercises).

I went from strictly lifting weights on a daily basis for the past 7 years straight, to transitioning completely to GB and only using the weights as prescribed in the GB course exercises (typically only used for the mobility iM element).

Over the past 2 months of doing strictly GB (F1, H1, and the Stretch courses), strength aside, I have noticed the following changes in my aesthetics and muscle:

-I have lost a lot of bodyfat and my midsection is ripped! (sub 10%)

-My back has stayed the same size

-My mid and lower chest has stayed the same, but my upper chest has become smaller

-My front and mid deltoids (shoulders) have become noticeably smaller; rear delts the same size or bigger

-My biceps have stayed the same or have slightly lost some size; my triceps have gotten bigger

-My mid and upper abs have gotten bigger; my lower abs have gotten smaller

-My legs overall are significantly smaller

-My ass is DRASTICALLY smaller

I know that for a majority of the GB community, asethetics are not a top priority, but I would still like some honest feedback and insight into the topic. Although my biggest priority currently is becoming stronger and more flexible and performing better in GB and GST, I still very much care about the aesthetics side of things. For example, I have had several people asking me lately if I stopped lifting.

For reference, the below exercises are where I am currently at within the F1 (upper body) course:

HPB PE3 (step 8)

RC PE2 (step 8)

sPL PE1 (step 8)

Thank you for your educational experience, personal anecdotal experience, and for all your comments!

-Rob

I kept front squats on a 6x2@80% scheme once a week, precisely because I felt leg strength was underemphasized. I think the SLS progressions have more of a muscle endurance effect if you can already squat with bodyweight on a barbell.

Hey Robert,

I have never been much for the aesthetics side of GST, or physique training in general, but I understand and respect the fact that many are. Functionality should come before aesthetics so you can maintain the aesthetics. I know I'll ultimately look better longer using the GB curriculum vs. a standard physique protocol. Build a healthy, functional body now for more physical freedom later. Keep cranking away on those progressions and you'll notice BIG changes as you progress further and further into Foundations. Patience will pay off.

13 minutes ago, Nicholas Kuhl said:

 

I kept front squats on a 6x2@80% scheme once a week, precisely because I felt leg strength was underemphasized. I think the SLS progressions have more of a muscle endurance effect if you can already squat with bodyweight on a barbell.

 

I don't suggest weighted squats until SLS is complete. @Luke Searra What were your results after temporarily dropping weights to correct imbalances with GST?

Legs are probably the only area of seeming neglect, but it is in actuality just preparing you for safe loads later on.  Leg size may not be large, but leg power will increase w/ SLS and later dynamic/plyometric work.  I am done w/ all the SLS progressions, and am now doing SLS w/ 45# kettlebell in hand, glute ham raises, and deadlifting. Don't think you're sacrificing leg strength.  The difference will be that your new leg strength will be functional, have a wide range of motion of power generation, and will decrease risk of injury, unlike typical powerlifting squats which is clearly hard on the knees and leave you feeling stiff afterwards.  If you are purely after size, GB may not be the best approach, but for functional strength and athletic improvements, I can't think of a better approach.  I'm confident the changes you're seeing in your chest and delts is just d/t the early elements you're on, because I can tell you later elements will blast these areas without difficulty.  Enjoy the process!

1 hour ago, Douglas Wadle said:

Legs are probably the only area of seeming neglect, but it is in actuality just preparing you for safe loads later on.  Leg size may not be large, but leg power will increase w/ SLS and later dynamic/plyometric work.  I am done w/ all the SLS progressions, and am now doing SLS w/ 45# kettlebell in hand, glute ham raises, and deadlifting. Don't think you're sacrificing leg strength.  The difference will be that your new leg strength will be functional, have a wide range of motion of power generation, and will decrease risk of injury, unlike typical powerlifting squats which is clearly hard on the knees and leave you feeling stiff afterwards.  If you are purely after size, GB may not be the best approach, but for functional strength and athletic improvements, I can't think of a better approach.  I'm confident the changes you're seeing in your chest and delts is just d/t the early elements you're on, because I can tell you later elements will blast these areas without difficulty.  Enjoy the process!

Well said, Douglas! Thank you! 

GST it is a solution to obtain the same performance as a gymnast, gymnasts need to have a good proportion but a relative strength that means that if you weight more you will have some loss of performance. said that if you want to maintain your muscles mass you can for sure.

If you look at the difference between an all around gymnast and a ring gymnast you will a massive size difference. The rings/ rope will definitely blow up your upper body but it take a lot of conditioning before you can do that work. Also think about the Athlete with the type of body you want and model your physical activity after that sport. Gymnasts are probably the upper body kings but sprinter have the best lower body IMO so maybe try combining the two. GST for workouts and Hill sprints on cardio days. That's my plan when the weather gets warmer.

Dorian's got some good points there. Gymnasts absolutely need brutally strong and hard legs, but for skill development there is no reason to pursue building their size, and coaches often actively avoid or work against lower body hypertrophy in potential Olympians. Again, this is a case of the needs of those going for the top levels, requiring every % advantage, which may or may not be necessary for those who aren't elite.

Slender legs with the 'genie' build are an advantage for some skills; basically it's mass that is not necessary to execute them, so it is more efficient to not carry it, in terms of both total weight lifted and distribution requiring different levers and balance. Personally I have never had this problem; I limit my weighted lower body training to once a week or two lower volume sessions, because I have naturally bigger legs and I'm not interested in growing them further as i am required to run for work and my sports interests. (Aside, I now prefer Romanian deadlifts Tues and front squats Fri for this on me, for low volume heavy weight, but I don't count all those J-curls, sls, leg mobility and lunges).

Foundation level training is just that. If you want to pursue size gains, or minimise them while chasing max strength, either path is easier and more available once that level of strength and mobility is established. IME it is far and away easier to gain mass when strength is already there, than try to chase both at once. As you've noticed hypertrophy will certainly happen along the way, and the rotation of exercises as you progress will ensure it pretty much all gets covered.

In the meantime, if it irks you, why not borrow some other ideas and add some hypertrophy work after a GST session? Keep it limited, say one or two movements per session because we are not trying to add a full workout here, do what you need to, and move on.

Hi Robert, 

As Alessandro, Everett and Jon have stated earlier the primary objective of GST is performance. It is designed to increase your relative strength, that is your strength to bodyweight ratio. Hypertrophy in certain muscle groups will obviously be a by product of this type of training but is not its primary purpose. 

You are absolutely right in noting that the GymnasticBodies program is not designed to build a massive set of legs. The leg training of the Foundation series is designed to build strength through a full range of motion. Gymnasts require powerful explosive legs but do not require additional mass and in fact it can be a detriment to overall relative strength.

Another mistake that people make is by comparing themselves to the physiques of Olympic champions. Of course Olympic gymnasts have amazing physiques, by the time you get to see them at the Olympics they have well in excess of 10,000 hours invested in those bodies. I believe that Coach has stated on many occasions that the introduction of advanced elements on the rings is responsible for a lot of the amazing physiques that we see at the Olympic games. How do you get to those advanced elements? You work through Foundations and prepare your body so that it is structurally able to withstand the demands that more advanced elements will place on it. "You must crawl before you walk and walk before you run."

On an individual note I have gone in and looked at your current schedule and noted that you are completing f7 twice a week. I can see that previously you were working out 4-6 days a week. There are some training variables that you can manipulate within the GymnasticBodies program that may illicit a more adaptive response.

One variable that can be manipulated if you are recovering well on your current schedule is to look at increasing the frequency of your workouts. Frequency is one way to add volume and therefore add demand, metabolic and physiological as well as local muscular demand. This can be a great way to up the intensity as well as the adaptive response of the program. Be warned however as this can be a fine balancing act, you want to allow any negative accumulations of training from a previous session to subside while still maintaining the fitness benefit or adaptive stimulus before going to the next workout. It is important to honestly assess your biofeedback and be on the lookout for signs of overtraining.

I have stated previously that if you are purely interested in aesthetics then there are certainly easier methods to obtain a sculpted physique. If however you are dedicated and consistent then not only will the GymnasticBodies system provide you with a well muscled, sculpted physique, it will also provide you with a body that is physically capable of matching those looks with performance. 

Nobody wants to drive around in a Ferrari with a Volkswagen engine.

1 hour ago, Darin Phoenix said:

Hi Robert, 

As Alessandro, Everett and Jon have stated earlier the primary objective of GST is performance. It is designed to increase your relative strength, that is your strength to bodyweight ratio. Hypertrophy in certain muscle groups will obviously be a by product of this type of training but is not its primary purpose. 

You are absolutely right in noting that the GymnasticBodies program is not designed to build a massive set of legs. The leg training of the Foundation series is designed to build strength through a full range of motion. Gymnasts require powerful explosive legs but do not require additional mass and in fact it can be a detriment to overall relative strength.

Another mistake that people make is by comparing themselves to the physiques of Olympic champions. Of course Olympic gymnasts have amazing physiques, by the time you get to see them at the Olympics they have well in excess of 10,000 hours invested in those bodies. I believe that Coach has stated on many occasions that the introduction of advanced elements on the rings is responsible for a lot of the amazing physiques that we see at the Olympic games. How do you get to those advanced elements? You work through Foundations and prepare your body so that it is structurally able to withstand the demands that more advanced elements will place on it. "You must crawl before you walk and walk before you run."

On an individual note I have gone in and looked at your current schedule and noted that you are completing f7 twice a week. I can see that previously you were working out 4-6 days a week. There are some training variables that you can manipulate within the GymnasticBodies program that may illicit a more adaptive response.

One variable that can be manipulated if you are recovering well on your current schedule is to look at increasing the frequency of your workouts. Frequency is one way to add volume and therefore add demand, metabolic and physiological as well as local muscular demand. This can be a great way to up the intensity as well as the adaptive response of the program. Be warned however as this can be a fine balancing act, you want to allow any negative accumulations of training from a previous session to subside while still maintaining the fitness benefit or adaptive stimulus before going to the next workout. It is important to honestly assess your biofeedback and be on the lookout for signs of overtraining.

I have stated previously that if you are purely interested in aesthetics then there are certainly easier methods to obtain a sculpted physique. If however you are dedicated and consistent then not only will the GymnasticBodies system provide you with a well muscled, sculpted physique, it will also provide you with a body that is physically capable of matching those looks with performance. 

Nobody wants to drive around in a Ferrari with a Volkswagen engine.

 

Wow Darin, I think this is the greatest feedback response I have ever received, or seen! Thank you so much. I am going to mantra this for a few days to really let it settle in. Lol.

Definitely noted. I did have a question, pertaining to your comment on my current workout split, regarding only doing F7 twice per week... I am indeed easily recovered between each F7 session (occurring every Sunday and Thursday), which the stretching courses and H1 (2x per week) in between. How would you modify my current split, if hypertrophy was also a goal? I was thinking about either doing a full day of hypertrophy on Tuesdays or adding in another F7 day on Tuesday? Your anecdotal experience and/or thoughts on this? Keep in mind, I'm down to 8% bf ish and am now eating in a 300 calorie surplus on my F7 days (3 days a week actually) and in a 300 calorie deficit on my other, "rest" days. Please also note that I did a FitnessGenes analysis (google it) and my results showed that my body type/genes recover extremely quickly and my body is endurance based and I therefore would respond to high repititions, done 3 times per week. I have confirmed this to be true on my body personally, even in a deficit.

Thanks again, for the great insight!

Please also note: increasing GST performance/progressing in GB is my primary goal, with maintaining aesthetics being second to that.

Hi Robert, 

I am always happy to help and share any insights that may be of value. 

If you are recovering well between workouts I would look at initially adding in another day of F7 on the Tuesday as this will increase your total volume. This as I stated is one program variable that can be manipulated for a more adaptive response. Remember however that the cumulative aspects of training take place over an unpredictable expanse of time and are not always immediate. It could take up to a year to notice adaptive responses fro a given training orientation. That is why we are always preaching patience and consistency. As I stated earlier the key is to honestly monitor your own biofeedback and make sure that you are fully recovering.

 As far as adding in a hypertrophy day at this stage if your goal is GST performance I would stick to the program as outlined. Increasing the size of your lower body for purely aesthetic reasons will most likely have detrimental consequences due to its affect on your relative strength. 

The only other area to look at currently is making sure that you are getting the most out of your workout. The people who will obtain the best results form the program will understand that every inch of every rep of every set matters. Remember the natural inclination of the body is to make work easier, and to work less when possible, this is it's way of conserving energy. To really increase the intensity make sure you are making a conscious mental effort to generate force through the entire range of motion of whatever exercise you are performing. This focus on correctly executing each rep of every set will go a long way towards maximising your results.

I look forward to seeing your results on the program.

Hi @Robert Lopez,

I guess everybody has summed it up. I would just like to add that you are only in Foundation One.  Think about what will happen when you progress to Foundation 4.  Something to look forward too. Thanks a lot for sharing your progress with us.

On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 7:16 AM, Robert Lopez said:

Keep in mind, I'm down to 8% bf ish and am now eating in a 300 calorie surplus on my F7 days (3 days a week actually) and in a 300 calorie deficit on my other, "rest" days.

Hi Robert.

Not sure if im reading this right but by your calculations you are, over a 1 week period, in a 300 Cal deficit, which isn't going to help maintain/build muscle. I'd personally be trying 300 cal surplus each day and monitor. But then again I wish I was 8% bf !

Once you get to Arch Ups (PE4/SL ?) you should be able to gain back some glutes. Just make sure you focus on squuuueeeeeeeezing those cheeks throughout the movement.