Suggestion for progression between MN pe5 and pe6

Hi all

Having reached MN PE6 , I am struggling hugely on just getting into the top position. I would consider that I have quite good core strength, however just being able to get my feet to the bar and hold them there is nigh on impossible.

It seems to me that the jump up in difficulty between pe5 and pe6 is huge. Pe5 was basically pretty easy for me, I have a form video here somewhere that I posted to check it was ok.

Going from half leg raise to full and a ten second drop seems to me like just too big a following progression. 

So does anyone have any idea on a smaller step up that can be worked before moving onto pe6?

As my suggestion, I have started to try just doing full leg raises to the bar but immediately dropping back down. Like an upscaled version of pe5. I am not yet touching the bar with my toes and still need a good minute rest in between sets but I don´t know what else to do.

What do you guys think? I am really struggling with this one.

thanks

Hi Marcus you can evaluate to do the exercise on an inclined bench of about 45-60° up to 80° then try to move the exercise into the stallbar.

Hi Alessandro. Ok , I understand what you mean , but am not sure how to actually do that in my gym. Do you have a visual?

It depends on what type of tools you have. I taken a normal abs bench, removed one side and fixed an anchor point that I can attach to a stallbar pole, in this way I can have an inclined surface. in my gym I also have a roman chair bench which can be inclined from horizontal up to vertical.

7 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

It depends on what type of tools you have. I taken a normal abs bench, removed one side and fixed an anchor point that I can attach to a stallbar pole, in this way I can have an inclined surface. in my gym I also have a roman chair bench which can be inclined from horizontal up to vertical.

Sounds perfect! I will have to check on Monday and see what I can do!

There is a fixed incline bench in the gym however the angle is probably 45 degrees max and is not enough for me, although I did have the idea you mention. I just had no way of implementing it.

Thank you for the help.

Hi @Marcus Patterson, I posted a similar question maybe just a few hours before you  I got some great tips too, check it out: 

I always thought one point with MN/PE6 was compression. Like Marcus, my HLL was pretty good but I could not get to the top of PE6, and if I managed to somehow get my feet up there, I could not come down slowly enough. Lack of abs/core strength. Thinking about it, I didn't do PE1 and PE2 with good form. I've gone back there now, at the risk of losing my gainz. But I'll be back, PE6, back to get you!

Sometimes its not just the compression, abs strength and core strength. It maybe because of poor forearm and shoulder flexibility, weak grip and weak shoulders. This is the beauty of the GB Courses. It will surely reveal where you are lagging. This is why people who choose elements and not work on everything will surely plateau at some point because of creating an imbalance.

A lot of good tips so far. @Marcus Patterson @Suzanna McGee, How is your JC depth and top range straddle up and V-up hold with arms?

If you don't mind, I can share some thoughts of what I have noticed in my training. I usually take notes on different positions and elements that help with a current progression: For example,

1) Jefferson Curl: moderate weight with hands past toes ( this allows for strength to build in MN PE2) 

2) Being able to sit in pike with thighs to belly, from Front split series.

3) Being able to hold top range MN PE3 with arms assisting, belly to thighs,

Allows for a smoother transition to PE6 which is also what I am working on and I am primarily gassed or limited by Leo's points in the final cycle.

On January 28, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Ryan Bailey said:

1) Jefferson Curl: moderate weight with hands past toes ( this allows for strength to build in MN PE2) 

2) Being able to sit in pike with thighs to belly, from Front split series.

3) Being able to hold top range MN PE3 with arms assisting, belly to thighs,

Ryan, great points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts… my JC is pretty fine (45 lbs, hands below the toes) and seated/standing pike too (face on the shins)… however, I am noticing that all the active stuff is not as good as my passive range of motion. I guess I will spend more time in the top range MN PE3 like you suggest, and other pike-active exercises. Maybe my hip-flexors are really really weak. I have never trained them actively before GST like I did all the other muscles (and traps, I never did either… The handstand training is showing me some issues, lol). I will keep you posted. If you find some new ideas and thoughts on MN PE6, feel free to share. 

On 1/28/2017 at 8:30 AM, Ryan Bailey said:

A lot of good tips so far. @Marcus Patterson @Suzanna McGee.

If you don't mind, I can share some thoughts of what I have noticed in my training. I usually take notes on different positions and elements that help with a current progression: For example,

1) Jefferson Curl: moderate weight with hands past toes ( this allows for strength to build in MN PE2) 

2) Being able to sit in pike with thighs to belly, from Front split series.

3) Being able to hold top range MN PE3 with arms assisting, belly to thighs,

Allows for a smoother transition to PE6 which is also what I am working on and I am primarily gassed or limited by Leo's points in the final cycle.

My compression is nowhere near face to shins, even though I have been doing front splits for nearly 7-8 months now. I haven´t tried yet holding pe3 in top position so will have to check. 

Re JC I must admit I am very lazy with these and do them infrequently. I will have to try doing this every day that I train and see if that improves things.

In the meantime I have been practising this exercise hanging from a bar which allows for greater range of motion for me. I an currently on 3 x 2 x 10 which is pretty hard for me but nowhere near as hard as on the stall bars. My aim was to work this way all the way up to mastery and then take it back to the stall bars again, what do you think?

@Marcus Patterson try and see if you can set yourself up like this and work your way up the rungs. Start your first rep from the top (feet near hands) by getting set up with your knees bent then create compression and extend legs and lower down, then do reps.

I am still really struggling to get anywhere near the level required for this exercise. I can tuck up and straighten my legs but they just drop straight back down, no strength whatsoever to hold them in place, any other suggestions?

Sounds like it would be worth revisiting previous progressions. How do your V-ups look for instance? Posting a video is the best way to find out if your mastery holds up. You might not have paid your dues where you thought had.

Thanks, which progression is v ups again?

V-ups are PE3

Leo mentioned flexibility and this is a good point; since moving GST to morning session (c. 530) I discovered my HLL suffered quite a bit unless I took the time to specifically include some pike stretches in my warmup. It didn't feel like a flex limitation, and I have previously built up to sets of 20 HLL, but that solved the issue.

My go-to pike stretch is a stallbar pike hang btw. Loosens up the whole back side for ROM in compression.

6 minutes ago, Jon Douglas said:

I took the time to specifically include some pike stretches in my warmup. It didn't feel like a flex limitation, and I have previously built up to sets of 20 HLL, but that solved the issue.

If this would be that easy for me to solve my issue with this one    But I too will include extra stretching before it and see if I can touch those toes to the bar… I am sooooo close, maybe 2 inches. They just don't want to go there. Thanks for the tip, even though I am not the OP.