Bulgarian Pull-up question

47 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

subscapularis and teres major are the major problems.

I'd like to see a video of correctly aligned hand and elbow, please 

10 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

Nice point. the ability to hold the hands and elbows backward required exactly the muscles which stretch the pecs. this means that tight pecs are a problem here.

Do you think wall extensions would help with the mobility for this exercise? 

Shoulder extensions will definitely help @Petri Widsten. If you have the Thoracic Bridge Series, then you will clearly have the advantage as long as you use the course.

3 hours ago, Leo Trinidad said:

Shoulder extensions will definitely help @Petri Widsten. If you have the Thoracic Bridge Series, then you will clearly have the advantage as long as you use the course.

Leo, I didn't mean shoulder extension but wall extensions where you sit against a wall with your arms as in the top position of a hinge row and your head and back against the wall then try to straighten your arms along the wall. This exercise is not part of Thoracic Bridge but used to be part of the curriculum.

Hi @Petri Widsten, sorry about that and thanks for correcting me. Yes wall extensions will also help a lot with your pulling.

I tried different grips to better align hands and elbows. I agree that I don't like hands tilting forward. I feel shoulders are in a vulnerable position there. Also, the more tired you are, the more forward your hands tilt, which is a proof that it's a sign of weakness (or a compensation for weakness). I'm glad @Alessandro Mainente brought it up. Below is a few videos of me trying different grip, and I feel the false grip provides a lot more control than the regular grip over the position of hands and elbows. It does add some more difficulty in the pull up, but I'm confident in my false grip, and I like how it gives me more control. Anyone objects if I use false grip in this exercise? 

Disclaimer: I do not suggest false grip for Bulgarian pull up to anyone who's not used to the false grip itself.

I like the second rep pf the first video.

1 hour ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

I like the second rep pf the first video.

Omg, the toughest coach on the forum likes something I did. Feel pumped! 

48 minutes ago, Jin Liu said:

Omg, the toughest coach on the forum likes something I did. Feel pumped! 

Only excellence pleases him  You go girl! Now repeat no. 2 ten times in a row…

3 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

I like the second rep pf the first video.

@Alessandro Mainente in that 2nd rep, Jin flexes her lumbar spine as she pulls up, and extends the lumbar spine as she descends. Is this acceptable - at this level, PE11- or should we try to maintain a slightly hollow body throughout the movement with no spinal flexion or extension at all?

@Jin Liu You are a beast

It is very hard to hold the retraction and pull both elbows are hands on the back while stay hollowed. if you engage strongly  the hollowed position you risk to move forward the shoulders, something you should avoid during pullup.

Her body line it is due to the height of the power rack and she needs to begin with bent knees (probably her quads are a bit tight..but i'k not sure). , she can simply try to extend the knees as she moves higher. if you have foundations 3 I can suggest you a simple exercise to improve dramatically the amount of elbows alignment during the pullup HBP/PE15>iM , performed as showed in the course video but also with the hands touching the ear. simply bend the elbow until the hand touches the ear.

51 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

It is very hard to hold the retraction and pull both elbows are hands on the back while stay hollowed. if you engage strongly  the hollowed position you risk to move forward the shoulders, something you should avoid during pullup.

 

Her body line it is due to the height of the power rack and she needs to begin with bent knees (probably her quads are a bit tight..but i'k not sure). , she can simply try to extend the knees as she moves higher. if you have foundations 3 I can suggest you a simple exercise to improve dramatically the amount of elbows alignment during the pullup HBP/PE15>iM , performed as showed in the course video but also with the hands touching the ear. simply bend the elbow until the hand touches the ear.

@Alessandro Mainente you are the best. I was going to say the same thing that my bodyline is mainly because I'm very self conscious about not touching the floor. I left the ring straps a bit long so I can pull them apart, but that leaves me not enough room above the floor, even for bent knees I feel. 

Thanks for suggesting HBP PE15im for improving the hand elbow alignment! 

Ok or no?

Hi Jin,

Your third rep was the best; you pulled higher at the top and it looked good! How is it looking from the front?

1 hour ago, Everett Carroll said:

Hi Jin,

Your third rep was the best; you pulled higher at the top and it looked good! How is it looking from the front?

Thanks Everett! I was right about to post the front view because I have another question. I've noticed I have a slight shoulder unevenness during wide pulls. Left is higher than the right, as shown in the video below. I never had any serious shoulder injuries. What may be the cause of this unevenness, and how can I fix it? I've tried actively to depress my left shoulder during the pull, but that doesn't help much. Other than that, is the width ok?

Jin, in the Bulgarian pullup, false grip, 6 March video at 14 seconds, it looks as if you are using your left pecs as a brace for your left shoulder. Can you see the difference in the picture below?

In the video above, I played it at 0.25 speed. At around 18 seconds you start to pull yourself to the left. It's only a small movement, but it's there.

This is being very picky...but you asked!

What I suspect is happening is that you're using your left pec major and minor (pec minor rolls the shoulder forward) AND left latissumus to stabilise the shoulder joint while you use left biceps to do more of the pull up.

Towards the end of your pull I see your left obliques pull your hips left, again to give your left biceps some more leverage.

So what to do?

Each shoulder pulls half your body weight. Using one of the machines at your gym, maybe lat pulldown with a rope attachment, try sitting on the floor (to minimise hip involvement) and pull one quarter of your bodyweight with each arm, using same action as the bulgarian pullup, but pulling from arm straight above your head all the way down so that your elbow is by your side. Think about pulling your elbows towards the floor.

See if you notice any differences between the right and left. If you can get your left shoulder "happy" pulling 1/4 bodyweight, increase it until you get back to 1/2.

I used the video analysis software Kinovea (free) for this:

I'm not up to RCPE11 yet, but tried them in my gym. If I concentrate on using biceps only, I want to use obliques as well. Curious!

8 hours ago, Nicholas Murray said:

Jin, in the Bulgarian pullup, false grip, 6 March video at 14 seconds, it looks as if you are using your left pecs as a brace for your left shoulder. Can you see the difference in the picture below?

In the video above, I played it at 0.25 speed. At around 18 seconds you start to pull yourself to the left. It's only a small movement, but it's there.

This is being very picky...but you asked!

What I suspect is happening is that you're using your left pec major and minor (pec minor rolls the shoulder forward) AND left latissumus to stabilise the shoulder joint while you use left biceps to do more of the pull up.

Towards the end of your pull I see your left obliques pull your hips left, again to give your left biceps some more leverage.

So what to do?

Each shoulder pulls half your body weight. Using one of the machines at your gym, maybe lat pulldown with a rope attachment, try sitting on the floor (to minimise hip involvement) and pull one quarter of your bodyweight with each arm, using same action as the bulgarian pullup, but pulling from arm straight above your head all the way down so that your elbow is by your side. Think about pulling your elbows towards the floor.

See if you notice any differences between the right and left. If you can get your left shoulder "happy" pulling 1/4 bodyweight, increase it until you get back to 1/2.

I used the video analysis software Kinovea (free) for this:

I'm not up to RCPE11 yet, but tried them in my gym. If I concentrate on using biceps only, I want to use obliques as well. Curious!

Thanks so much!! That's very helpful!! When I'm doing it, I really can't feel what caused it, even when I deliberately slowed it down and tried to eliminate it. I would've never thought about pec. The oblique movement is interesting too. I wonder if it has to do with me trying to depress the left shoulder, but I ended up pulling up the left hip. I agree that I need some more isolation work to fix it. I also saw people on some other forum suggesting keep do very slow negatives until you eliminate the unevenness. I think that may work too. 

I don't think this shoulder unevenness is uncommon, especially in the wide grip pull-ups. I've seen quite a lot actually. Even in one of the course videos, the wide grip L sit pull-up, which is much more demanding on the shoulders, the demo athlete is also showing some shoulder unevenness. I'm really curious to know why. 

Just took a look at one of my very first videos on the Bulgarian pull-up with neutral grip, my shoulders seem more even there. So it's the grip that changed the recruitment of muscle group? But it could also be that my shoulders weren't wide enough when I just started this pe.. 

Fascinating observation on yourself and find in the course video! I remember that that pullup version felt weird, like I had to do something before starting the pull to set up my shoulder to not get screwed up or to even work at all, maybe the athlete in the video didn't do that for both sides in this case...

Guys, a little suggestion from my last 5 years teaching Bulgarian pullup: release the subscapularis and then begin the Bulgarian pullup. the common tendency of the subscapularis when it is tight and involved in the pullup it is to modify the shoulder rhythm by elevating one shoulder before the other one.

5 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

Guys, a little suggestion from my last 5 years teaching Bulgarian pullup: release the subscapularis and then begin the Bulgarian pullup. the common tendency of the subscapularis when it is tight and involved in the pullup it is to modify the shoulder rhythm by elevating one shoulder before the other one.

Do you mean to start the pull-up from a deadhang for each single rep? Or is there something I'm missing? Cuz that's what I do and the uneven shoulders appear half way through the pull, near the top.

@Kai Ewert how do you prep the shoulders before the wide pull-ups?

thank you guys!

Nope Jin, use a stretch position to elongate the subscapularis then work on the bulgarian pullup.

I wasn't referring to some exercise I did before the pullups, but rather a "movement" before each rep. It felt like I couldn't just start pulling up, I first had to "set" the shoulders. I'd say by retracting and depressing. If I wouldn't consciously do that, I'd feel totally stuck at the bottom and as if trying to pull up would be very unhealthy for my shoulders...

Kai, that is correct, you should feel the first movement be a depression of the scapula.  If you do not do that it will be very hard on your brachioradialis.  A lot of the exercises leading up to this point should have you in a fairly strong scapular depression to initiate the pull up movement.  Not just in this movement, but in all of these RC progressions.