F1 and H1 + additional strength training in gym, advice

Thank you for your help, and I am sorry in advance if this post is redundant! This is also my first time ever posting in the GST forum, so please feel free to move this post if it is in the correct location within the forum.

A little background on me-- I have been involved in fitness in one way or another for the past 7 years straight. I have played most sports (even tried Crossfit for a year), and most recently have been powerlifting for the past 2 years. I have recently became interested in GST randomly, because while I was bored I saw a video on Instagram of a ripped dude my age doing a human flag. I went to the same guy's profile and saw more pictures and videos that impressed me, including a press to handstand. I was ready for something new, and was bored with solely power lifting, so I started Googling these movements, but also combined with terms such as "with aesthetics". 

A lot of my Google searches were directing me towards "bar brothers" and calisthenics based sites, but I somehow also stumbled upon Gymnastics Bodies and the GST programs, which most interested me. I wanted a program where I could build from the ground up, and I knew that my mobility needed work (I always stretched a little before lifting and sports, but never enough. I definitely had not made mobility a priority in the past). GST seemed like the perfect balance of what I was looking for, and all of the marketing materials and videos sold me quickly.

I have attached a current physique picture from 6 weeks ago, prior to starting GST. Note: I am 6'1, 180 lbs, and 30 years of age.

Prior to purchasing these courses, I had already started working on my mobility because I knew it was a weakness (yoga and a lot of stretching in between sets during my bodybuilding/power lifting workouts). I also already had a nice strength foundation built, as I have been lifting for so long. So I figured strength would not be an issue (for example: i can do 15 strict handstand push ups no problem, as a direct result of my overhead press strength). 

The reason I purchased the programs is to become a gymnast yoda master and to become advanced at the Foundation 1 movements.

So after doing my research, I purchased Fundamentals, F1, and the H1 course about 6 weeks ago, and have been doing doing a combination of all 3 times per week each.

To get to my question-- I keep hitting the "too easy" smiley face on almost every workout session, and feel like I am not getting a good enough workout (yet) in order to maintain my current physique/aesthetics, which is very important to me. I know that it is natural that I may lose a little bit of size, but I hope to maintain my aesthetics to some degree... excuse my vanity.

I am loving the courses, but am thinking that I may need to add in some extra strength training (squats, bench press, overhead press, etc.) in order to maintain my current muscle until I get more advanced in the movements and am more challenged. Either I need to supplement with additional weight lifting, or maybe I should skip forward in progression on some of the courses? However, I do not want to do this if I will be missing out on key mobility work and sacrificing connective tissue growth.

Please know, I do understand that there are plenty of Olympic and elite level gymnasts that have physiques that are far superior aesthetically than mine, but I also know that they are at such a high, elite level of gymnast training to where they are challenged on a daily basis (ring work, straight arm work, etc.). But I am not there yet, and need some sort of extra challenge/stress on my physique until I get to a higher level.

Any advice on what I should do is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

HI Robert you can of course do something more but perform first foundations work and be sure to balance the additional work you are doing with the appropriate mobility.

Not sure I should be saying this, but you could also jump to the step 9 of the exercises that are waaaay too easy (which will give you more volume and a better workout). Just make sure that you post a video here for a form check , so you wouldn't do volume with poor form. You will get a good workout while working on your mobility… I also started GST pretty fit and in the beginning did more volume. Now some things are tough for me and I gladly enjoy the lower steps

Thank you, both! Suzanna, I might take your advice. Let me check out step 9 and see where it puts me. I will post my form if I do decide to jump ahead.

Suzanna, do you perform any of the stretching courses in conjunction with F1/H1? Do you recommend it? I feel like I need more hamstring, hip flexor and groin mobility, so that once I am done with H1, I will be able to transition into a straddle press to handstand more easily. Thanks for your advice!

The Front Split course will definitely help you improve your hamstring flexibility and also HF. The Middle Split series focus on hip mobility and pancake, which is  helpful to master in order to do the straddle press  

3 hours ago, Robert Lopez said:

Suzanna, do you perform any of the stretching courses in conjunction with F1/H1? Do you recommend it?

I HIGHLY recommend it. All of them. I found GST because I wanted to learn a handstand. Got H1. Than added Foundation. Then added all stretches, each week one more. They are all great, and all needed. The Thoracic bridge for your handstand (for the shoulder mobility), the front and middle split for the future straddle press handstand. Start doing all of them now, it will speed up the process later (or minimize the slowness of progress, ha ha, that's how I feel). I do each stretch once a week, F7 twice a week, H1/H2 twice a week. Limbering stretches and/or myofascial daily… 

1 hour ago, Pauline Taube said:

The Front Split course will definitely help you improve your hamstring flexibility and also HF. The Middle Split series focus on hip mobility and pancake, which is  helpful to master in order to do the straddle press  

 

Thank you, Pauline! I will look into buying.

41 minutes ago, Suzanna McGee said:

I HIGHLY recommend it. All of them. I found GST because I wanted to learn a handstand. Got H1. Than added Foundation. Then added all stretches, each week one more. They are all great, and all needed. The Thoracic bridge for your handstand (for the shoulder mobility), the front and middle split for the future straddle press handstand. Start doing all of them now, it will speed up the process later (or minimize the slowness of progress, ha ha, that's how I feel). I do each stretch once a week, F7 twice a week, H1/H2 twice a week. Limbering stretches and/or myofascial daily… 

Awesome, Suzanna! Thank you for your input. I think I am going to purchase all of the stretches. And thank you for posting your workout/stretching, weekly split. Dang, F7!! How long did it take you to get to F7? Good work!

I am currently doing the following: F1 (2x per week), H1 (2x per week), plus some random stretching each night, plus additional power lifting workouts (2-3 workouts) on my F1 days, since there isn't enough volume yet.

What days do you normally combine your stretching sessions with? Also, what limbering stretches and myofascial work do you supplement daily with?

Thanks!

21 hours ago, Robert Lopez said:

Awesome, Suzanna! Thank you for your input. I think I am going to purchase all of the stretches. And thank you for posting your workout/stretching, weekly split. Dang, F7!! How long did it take you to get to F7? Good work!

I am currently doing the following: F1 (2x per week), H1 (2x per week), plus some random stretching each night, plus additional power lifting workouts (2-3 workouts) on my F1 days, since there isn't enough volume yet.

What days do you normally combine your stretching sessions with? Also, what limbering stretches and myofascial work do you supplement daily with?

Robert, F7 here means all 7 elements in one workout (core, upper, lower). Some people split it, I like to do it in once. I started to do that from early beginning as I was used to do high volume training in the gym and outside the gym all my life. 

I do F7 on Monday, H1/H2 Tuesday, then my upper is quite beat up, so I do Middle Split on Wednesday, and recover my upper. Then F7 on Thursday, H1/H2 Friday, Front Split Saturday… On Sunday I have a pole fitness class (yea, I am learning that and it is so hard for me!!!) and I do the Thoracic Bridge later in the evening to stretch out the shoulders that got pretty tired in my pole class. I don't do any other workouts now, because this works for me pretty well…  but I ride some bike here and there, walk 1.5 hour daily with my dog, etc. (I don't count those as workouts  ).

My limbering stretches and myofascial are for my quads and hip-flexors (so tight, being a tennis player, very quad-dominant…). Also my external and internal rotation of the hips is quite bad, so I work on that. I added some frogs and cats (from the TBS series) because my adductors and shoulders need some extra attention too. And just yesterday I decided that I will do a little of daily myofascial release for my thoracic spine, which is quite stiff and could get a little extra love from me during the week. 

Sometimes I wish I wouldn't need to work to fit all this "bodily self-care" in.  

I'm not sure why you would need to put it on Step 9 manually. Shouldn't the first step for any new progression be a Mastery test which you would, presumably, pass easily? Once that happens the scheduler should be taking you to the new progression. By the time you get to Pseudo planche pushups, for example, I think you would hit a wall on "too easy" pretty quick. The same should go for 5x60 Straddle holds or 5x60 Hollow body hold.

On 1/5/2017 at 11:16 AM, Suzanna McGee said:

Robert, F7 here means all 7 elements in one workout (core, upper, lower). Some people split it, I like to do it in once. I started to do that from early beginning as I was used to do high volume training in the gym and outside the gym all my life. 

I do F7 on Monday, H1/H2 Tuesday, then my upper is quite beat up, so I do Middle Split on Wednesday, and recover my upper. Then F7 on Thursday, H1/H2 Friday, Front Split Saturday… On Sunday I have a pole fitness class (yea, I am learning that and it is so hard for me!!!) and I do the Thoracic Bridge later in the evening to stretch out the shoulders that got pretty tired in my pole class. I don't do any other workouts now, because this works for me pretty well…  but I ride some bike here and there, walk 1.5 hour daily with my dog, etc. (I don't count those as workouts  ).

My limbering stretches and myofascial are for my quads and hip-flexors (so tight, being a tennis player, very quad-dominant…). Also my external and internal rotation of the hips is quite bad, so I work on that. I added some frogs and cats (from the TBS series) because my adductors and shoulders need some extra attention too. And just yesterday I decided that I will do a little of daily myofascial release for my thoracic spine, which is quite stiff and could get a little extra love from me during the week. 

Sometimes I wish I wouldn't need to work to fit all this "bodily self-care" in.  

Dang, great email! Your weekly routine is dedication and goals right there! I am so impressed.

I too come from a history of lots of lifting, cardio, sports and overall volume. I am dieting right now (cutting at a 20% deficit in calories), so I am not sure if I will be able to handle this same amount of workload, but I might give it a try. How would you modify your routine if you were cutting? Or would you recommend that I bump my calories back up to maintenance (TDEE), and see if the extra calories burned from all of the exercise (F7), will burn off enough calories to cut a little body fat? Your thoughts (not sure how much you know about nutrition). Thank you for your help!

3 hours ago, Randeep Walia said:

I'm not sure why you would need to put it on Step 9 manually. Shouldn't the first step for any new progression be a Mastery test which you would, presumably, pass easily? Once that happens the scheduler should be taking you to the new progression. By the time you get to Pseudo planche pushups, for example, I think you would hit a wall on "too easy" pretty quick. The same should go for 5x60 Straddle holds or 5x60 Hollow body hold.

I need to learn what a Mastery test is first, before I do anything. LOL

@Randeep Walia @Robert Lopez The option to mastery test has been discontinued. Using the smiley faces, it should take at least four workouts to complete step 9 of a movement (completing step 9=mastery). This will make sure everyone spends at least a four workouts on each progression. The extra time spent on each progression is going to make your basics much better and ensure you are getting enough exposure to the mobility exercises. Even if the strength portion feels very easy, be sure you are putting extra emphasis on the iM. 

1 hour ago, Everett Carroll said:

@Randeep Walia @Robert Lopez The option to mastery test has been discontinued. Using the smiley faces, it should take at least four workouts to complete step 9 of a movement (completing step 9=mastery). This will make sure everyone spends at least a four workouts on each progression. The extra time spent on each progression is going to make your basics much better and ensure you are getting enough exposure to the mobility exercises. Even if the strength portion feels very easy, be sure you are putting extra emphasis on the iM. 

Great explanation, Everett! Thank you so much!

Regarding this same topic, I did have another question (please see also attached image):

In the H1 course, I have finally reached the 'headstand' progression (HS PE2), paired with HS PE2>iM....

My question is this-- the headstand exercise is extremely easy for me (very easy, smiley), however, the mobility of holding the bar behind my back and as high as is depicted in the picture, would be considered "too hard"-- holding a 10 lb bar behind my back is easy, but I can't get it as high as the mobile gymnast in the demonstration. 

Therefore, should I continue to select the 'fine' smiley, until I can hold the bar as high as the gymnast/until my mobility gets a lot better? 

Also, I am always curious as to how heavy I of a dumbbell and straight bar I am supposed to be using for the exercises in F1 and H1. Does it matter? For instance, in the Core exercises, I am currently doing Seated Russian Twists for 4x18reps-- 4x18 reps is 'very easy' with a 5 lb dumbbell, but only 'fine' when i move to a 10 lb dumbbell. 

I hope my questions make sense, and are too stupid to be asking! Thanks again for your help.

Hi Robert,

Good questions. You can not move to the next progression until both strength and mobility element is mastered. Continue to chose 'Failed mobility' until you can perform the exercise with good form. I know this iM can be pretty tough, are you currently doing the TB Stretch course? 

For mastery level you won't need to go any heavier than 5lbs. Once the exercises are mastered you can always go back and increase the load, but make sure you do it gradually  

If you'd like some personal feedback regarding the form on the shoulder extension, please submit a form check. 

4 hours ago, Robert Lopez said:

How would you modify your routine if you were cutting? Or would you recommend that I bump my calories back up to maintenance (TDEE), and see if the extra calories burned from all of the exercise (F7), will burn off enough calories to cut a little body fat? Your thoughts (not sure how much you know about nutrition). Thank you for your help!

I did my share of nutrition experiments (stopped a long time ago, got myself down to 8% body fat naturally, which for a female was pretty good)… I am thinking that unless you are getting ready for a photo shoot or a contest and really have to cut to get lean, do it. Otherwise, I would eat your normal amount of calories and do these intense workouts and see how your body responds. You will have a lot of energy and  I suspect that you may get leaner just from your hard workouts… While I tried pretty much any nutritional approach during my last 30 years, I am quite biased now toward plant-based nutrition, which I practice for the past 5–6 years and it works really well for me. I can eat a lot, I am never hungry, I recover really well and have a lot of energy to train… this is all so personal, so you will eventually figure out the best thing for you… curious to hear how it goes, keep me/us updated, please. 

1 hour ago, Pauline Taube said:

Hi Robert,

Good questions. You can not move to the next progression until both strength and mobility element is mastered. Continue to chose 'Failed mobility' until you can perform the exercise with good form. I know this iM can be pretty tough, are you currently doing the TB Stretch course? 

For mastery level you won't need to go any heavier than 5lbs. Once the exercises are mastered you can always go back and increase the load, but make sure you do it gradually  

If you'd like some personal feedback regarding the form on the shoulder extension, please submit a form check. 

Hi Pauline,

Thank you for your message. I have not purchased any of the stretch courses, although now I plan to since I am finding mobility limitations within F1. I wish I would have known that it is recommended to purchase the stretch series in order to be successful within the F1 course. Oh well, live and learn I suppose.

*Note: please feel free to redirect me if these questions have already been answered somewhere else (probably multiple times, lol). I do not mean to annoy anyone.**

Can you please explain your interpretation of each of the smileys? I read the FAQ and it mentioned to not overthink it. So I haven't been. 

For example, I don't clearly understand the difference between the 'too hard' and 'failed mobility' smileys. Is an exercise failed when you don't achieve perfect form for the movement, or only when you literally physically cannot even perform any aspect of it? For example, should i have selected 'failed mobility' because I can't lift my arms behind me as high as the demonstrator, while performing HS PE2>iM? I can get halfway up and hold it there for the entire duration of each set.

But the paired headstand strength movement was a piece of cake. So I elected to select "Fine". But based on your response, it sounds like I should have selected 'failed mobility' since I didn't perfect the form?

Also, what is the progression difference that happens when you select 'fine', 'too hard', versus 'failed mobility'? Thank you for the clarification.

52 minutes ago, Suzanna McGee said:

I did my share of nutrition experiments (stopped a long time ago, got myself down to 8% body fat naturally, which for a female was pretty good)… I am thinking that unless you are getting ready for a photo shoot or a contest and really have to cut to get lean, do it. Otherwise, I would eat your normal amount of calories and do these intense workouts and see how your body responds. You will have a lot of energy and  I suspect that you may get leaner just from your hard workouts… While I tried pretty much any nutritional approach during my last 30 years, I am quite biased now toward plant-based nutrition, which I practice for the past 5–6 years and it works really well for me. I can eat a lot, I am never hungry, I recover really well and have a lot of energy to train… this is all so personal, so you will eventually figure out the best thing for you… curious to hear how it goes, keep me/us updated, please. 

Hi Suzanna, 

Thank you for sharing your experiences and feedback. I thoroughly enjoy talking to you about it.

Also, thank you for the advice. I think I will do as you say and bump my calories back up to my maintenance (not trying to get ready for a photoshoot or content; I just enjoy staying around 10% during the winter and 8-10% during the summer months). Hopefully the intense workouts will help me burn some bodyfat.

Your plant based diet sounds interesting. Do you track your macro nutrients? I would be worried about not hitting my protein requirements with solely a plant based diet?

Do you have a link to any good resources you follow utilizing this diet approach?

Thanks again for your quick responses! I will definitely keep you updated along the way.

No worries Robert

The smiley system is pretty simple. If the strength element is too hard you click on this button. If it's too hard because you're exhauseted it's still too hard. If you fail to perform the mobility with good form, you fail regardless.

If you find the strength element easy and fail to perform the mobility with good form you should not click fine just because it's in between. 

If you're unsure about your form, please submit a video. 

When chosing Fine you will remain on the same step in programming, when choosing Too hard you will move one step down and when Failed mobility you will move one step forward, but you won't move up to the next progression until mobility is mastered. This means that if you're on Step 9 you will remain here until you mastered the mobility exercise  

1 hour ago, Pauline Taube said:

No worries Robert

The smiley system is pretty simple. If the strength element is too hard you click on this button. If it's too hard because you're exhauseted it's still too hard. If you fail to perform the mobility with good form, you fail regardless.

If you find the strength element easy and fail to perform the mobility with good form you should not click fine just because it's in between. 

If you're unsure about your form, please submit a video. 

When chosing Fine you will remain on the same step in programming, when choosing Too hard you will move one step down and when Failed mobility you will move one step forward, but you won't move up to the next progression until mobility is mastered. This means that if you're on Step 9 you will remain here until you mastered the mobility exercise  

Thanks for the quick response, Pauline.

This was helpful. However, I still don't understand this statement. Can you please elaborate a little more?

"When 'failed mobility' you will move one step forward, but you won't move up to the next progression until mobility is mastered. This means that if you're on Step 9 you will remain here until you mastered the mobility exercise."

The smiley is tied to both the strength and mobility elements (paired). Why would selecting 'failed mobility' move you one step forward? Shouldn't it move you backward?

5 hours ago, Robert Lopez said:

Your plant based diet sounds interesting. Do you track your macro nutrients? I would be worried about not hitting my protein requirements with solely a plant based diet?

Do you have a link to any good resources you follow utilizing this diet approach?

I always track my macros   for the past 20 years… I use MyFitnessPal app (back in time it was a plain spreadsheet). My protein is about 10-15% of calories, fat 10-15%, carbs 70-80%. This amount of protein is more than enough, because I use all the carbs for energy (they burn quick and light). If you eat whole foods plant-based from variety of sources, you get approximately 8-12% protein calories from the food, so no need for any supplements. My staples are (sprouted) lentils, garbanzos, peas, all other possible beans for protein. Carbs: fruits and veggies, oats, potatoes, rice… fat: I don't use any oils, but nuts, seeds, avocados, etc.   Here you have a few excerpts and tables from my "The Athlete's Simple Guide to a Plant-Based Lifestyle": http://www.tennisfitnesslove.com/books/   There are some great books from Rich Roll, Robert Cheeke (I haven't read his, but I know him), Brendan Brazier… 

Sorry it was a bit unclear Robert, 

If the strength element is easy, but you can't perform the mobility exercise, you will choose 'Failed mobility'. If you're on step 8 for example, you will be moved to step 9 the following week. If you still struggling with the mobility on step 9, you will remain on this step (since this is mastery) until you can perform the mobility exercise with good form. 

When choosing failed mobility it means that you mastered the strength element, you can still maintain your strength while your building up your mobility  if you find the headstand easy but fail the mobility, it makes no sense to move backwards when you've already mastered 60s. You keep work on this progression until you've reached the mobility goal. 

Hope this made more sense  

11 minutes ago, Pauline Taube said:

Sorry it was a bit unclear Robert, 

If the strength element is easy, but you can't perform the mobility exercise, you will choose 'Failed mobility'. If you're on step 8 for example, you will be moved to step 9 the following week. If you still struggling with the mobility on step 9, you will remain on this step (since this is mastery) until you can perform the mobility exercise with good form. 

When choosing failed mobility it means that you mastered the strength element, you can still maintain your strength while your building up your mobility  if you find the headstand easy but fail the mobility, it makes no sense to move backwards when you've already mastered 60s. You keep work on this progression until you've reached the mobility goal. 

Hope this made more sense  

This really helped! Now I get it. Thank you for the help! Much appreciated.

41 minutes ago, Suzanna McGee said:

I always track my macros   for the past 20 years… I use MyFitnessPal app (back in time it was a plain spreadsheet). My protein is about 10-15% of calories, fat 10-15%, carbs 70-80%. This amount of protein is more than enough, because I use all the carbs for energy (they burn quick and light). If you eat whole foods plant-based from variety of sources, you get approximately 8-12% protein calories from the food, so no need for any supplements. My staples are (sprouted) lentils, garbanzos, peas, all other possible beans for protein. Carbs: fruits and veggies, oats, potatoes, rice… fat: I don't use any oils, but nuts, seeds, avocados, etc.   Here you have a few excerpts and tables from my "The Athlete's Simple Guide to a Plant-Based Lifestyle": http://www.tennisfitnesslove.com/books/   There are some great books from Rich Roll, Robert Cheeke (I haven't read his, but I know him), Brendan Brazier… 

 

Thanks for sharing! I will check it out!

14 hours ago, Suzanna McGee said:

: I don't use any oils, but nuts, seeds, avocados, etc.    

 

You should use olive oil! Trust me!

1 hour ago, Antonio Alías Montoya said:

You should use olive oil! Trust me!

Hee hee, I don't trust  ;-) I use olives instead. More nutrition per calorie  :-D