HBP/PE3: questions about feet position

Hello GB community and happy new year!

I would like to clarify once for all an issue about the best form for pseudo planche push ups. For this reason I post two videos in comparison.

video 1:

video 2:

In the second video the amount of lean is a little bit higher, ( 1 cm more or less) compared to the first one. However I realized that I can't stay completely on the neck of my feet/instep. I would say I stay more on the phalanx. Moreover I have much more difficulty to engage PPT during the whole movement, I think I lose it a bit. 

Instead in the first video I can keep PPT and stay on the neck of feet easier. I noticed it while looking at the distance between heel and wall. In the second video heels are much more closer to the wall. 

I think the form showed in the first video is better, even though the amount of lean is a little bit lower than in the second video. 

I would like to have a feedback about this issue. In most videos posted on the forum I see people stay more on the phalanx. Are they both valid forms or better to work with the form in the first video (as I guess)?

Moreover, in the first video, the lean is sufficient in terms of mastery requirements?

Thanks to all!

Alessandro

You mind me asking why do you use the wall at all? I see the goal as achieving more and more lean, basically to the point where you can "lift" your feet off the ground(of course there's a lot more to it).
So with that in mind I like your 1st video better, as you're not pushing off the wall that much and you keep your toes pointed.
It seems like you pick up a slight bend in your knees in between. IMO that wouldn't happen w/o the wall...but correct me if I'm wrong.  

The lean looks good Alessandro, try to keep your knees locked and move away from the wall

@Bas Albinus @Pauline Taubethanks for your feeback!!  

I always think in terms of mastery (in this case 5x10 reps) before moving on the next progressions. In this sense I asked about the amount of lean as the "minimal" one, even though I guessed there is room to increase it more and more.

Basically I use the wall in order to have an exact measure of the distance between hands and feet, so that I am working during the whole routine with the same exact amount of lean... in the past I was a bit approximative about the distance: for each set I simply got into push push up position, then lean forward and start the routine... but this way I felt some sets harder, other easier... since that I realized that even only 1 cm of further/lower lean increases/decreases significantly the difficulty, I thought to place feet next to the wall, in order to have a secure point of reference for feet position. Actually I didn't got a better idea than this one...

In any case I do not feel at all I am "pushing against the wall" with my feet, basically I simply touch the wall with tips, before getting into the position. nothing all.

However now I know which is the distance I should work on... So I plan to work as in the first video, moving away from the wall! if I'm right I would not find any difference! I will check it! 

I will be careful to keep knees locked, my right leg is a bit thinner than the left one, because of ACL surgery, and tends to bent more easily than the left one... I will focus on it!

The second one it is good but you need to stay on the instep. teh fact that the dorsi-flexion increase it is a natural involuntary strategy to reduce the leverage!

16 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

The second one it is good but you need to stay on the instep. teh fact that the dorsi-flexion increase it is a natural involuntary strategy to reduce the leverage!

I suspected this makes a difference! Thank you @Alessandro Mainente for this clarification! I will keep an eye on it! 

15 hours ago, Alessandro Di Sanzo said:

since that I realized that even only 1 cm of further/lower lean increases/decreases significantly the difficulty, I thought to place feet next to the wall, in order to have a secure point of reference for feet position. Actually I didn't got a better idea than this one...

Got ya! I'm not yet on this progression but I like the idea with a string as a sounding line around the mid section.
Worst about staying on the instep during planche leans/push ups were massive cramps in  my feet in the beginning. 

1 hour ago, Bas Albinus said:

Got ya! I'm not yet on this progression but I like the idea with a string as a sounding line around the mid section.
Worst about staying on the instep during planche leans/push ups were massive cramps in  my feet in the beginning. 

Yes indeed >.<

It comes though. This way you can get a much higher % of your body weight loaded onto the arms than the approx 60% in a basic pushup. Not 100 but I'd be surprised if it weren't pushing 90 done right. Someone got a flat bathroom scale and want to test this?

36 minutes ago, Jon Douglas said:

Yes indeed >.<

It comes though. This way you can get a much higher % of your body weight loaded onto the arms than the approx 60% in a basic pushup. Not 100 but I'd be surprised if it weren't pushing 90 done right. Someone got a flat bathroom scale and want to test this?

Haha, interesting. I got 62% and 83% on the flat scale. Form kinda sucked though.

15 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

It comes though. This way you can get a much higher % of your body weight loaded onto the arms than the approx 60% in a basic pushup. Not 100 but I'd be surprised if it weren't pushing 90 done right. Someone got a flat bathroom scale and want to test this?

What a great little test idea!!! It is very obvious how much we lean depending on the number. Maybe it's going to be a nice way to measure the improvement, the visual how it looks just deceives me  (I see what I want to see, lol) The closer 100%, the closer we are to the planche. I haven't done it (yet), but for sure will…

On January 4, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Jon Douglas said:

Someone got a flat bathroom scale and want to test this?

This was not as easy as I thought. My scale is small, so I did only one hand on it, the other one on a mat that was the same height so I can evenly distribute my weight. I measured the scale under my right and under my left and did an average. It was awkward, because I had to rush: to zero the scale and then hurry before it turns off… so I couldn't make my planche as pretty as I wished. 

Right hand and left hand were a few pounds difference, but average 70 lbs per arm. I weigh 160 lbs, so it would be 87.5% in the planche lean. 

In the regular push-up position, my weight was 60 lbs in each arm, which is 75%. 

@Jon Douglas, I am getting close to 90%, I guess I am doing it (almost) right?  :-D 

That's interesting  I wonder if we could find a correlation; x degrees of lean equals roughly % bw. Ton of variables, probably individual based on limb length etc. Still, always interesting to hear; essentially bench pressing 87.5% bw with 0 stability from the bench,  only hand surface area

27 minutes ago, Jon Douglas said:

That's interesting  I wonder if we could find a correlation; x degrees of lean equals roughly % bw. Ton of variables, probably individual based on limb length etc. Still, always interesting to hear; essentially bench pressing 87.5% bw with 0 stability from the bench,  only hand surface area

I guess it's even more and definitely harder than that. Leaning forward + hollow body transferred to bench press could be sth like benching 87.5% bw while holding a 45degr. leg lift w additional 12.5%bw ... wonder what that'd look like  
Whatever, I'm not close to that at all. After shoulder surgery I've had a 2month lay off from upper body work. Just started doing some planches on my god arm again. Was surprised how easy they felt. Taped it and ta-daaaa: I pike worse than my dog asking to play! No wonder it "feels" easy. Will do like Alessandro and measure my feet vs hand position from now on!!!