Manna - An Advanced Static Strength Element

Daniel Burnham said:

I would say around 2-3 years depending on where you start.  It is hard skill.  I would say circles are much easier.  Flairs probably are too though I haven't gotten them yet.  Im not actually aware of too many people who have gotten manna as an adult, though I suspect this will change with the release of the foundation series.

I haven't seen anyone many people achieve it as an adult either which I find interesting. Apparently, some ex gymnast say some people can get it and some can't. The ones who tend to get it, get it within months.

We will find out as the Foundation series is taking us there as one of the core movements to master.

- Chris

Alex Chubb said:

I haven't seen anyone many people achieve it as an adult either which I find interesting. Apparently, some ex gymnast say some people can get it and some can't. The ones who tend to get it, get it within months.

Generally when gymnasts train for the position they are already very prepared with good compression flexibility and have decent triceps strength from other movements.  WIth this prep I could see it taking around 6 months of dedicated training, maybe less if the person is especially gifted.

Daniel Burnham said:

Generally when gymnasts train for the position they are already very prepared with good compression flexibility and have decent triceps strength from other movements.  WIth this prep I could see it taking around 6 months of dedicated training, maybe less if the person is especially gifted.

I mean the people who genetically are able to do the manna, are able to get it within a few months. The people who aren't don't get it. Gymnast or not, I am talking about the genetic ability to get it.

Also I am not saying I believe it, it's just what I have heard from other people in this field. I hope it isn't true.

Alex Chubb said:

I mean the people who genetically are able to do the manna, are able to get it within a few months. The people who aren't don't get it. Gymnast or not, I am talking about the genetic ability to get it.

 

Also I am not saying I believe it, it's just what I have heard from other people in this field. I hope it isn't true.

I'm curious - what makes you think that there is a genetic determining factor, and not simply a lack of proper training know-how? 

Hari_Seldon said:

I'm curious - what makes you think that there is a genetic determining factor, and not simply a lack of proper training know-how? 

I wrote in the previous post that I am not saying I believe it. It is just what I have heard from others who work with this type of strength training. I also said I hope it isn't true. I haven't seen anyone on this board accomplish it nor do you go on youtube and see many adults doing a manna or saying the accomplished one. If the foundation series changes that, we'll see. 

Alex Chubb said:

I wrote in the previous post that I am not saying I believe it. It is just what I have heard from others who work with this type of strength training. I also said I hope it isn't true. I haven't seen anyone on this board accomplish it nor do you go on youtube and see many adults doing a manna or saying the accomplished one. If the foundation series changes that, we'll see. 

Alex Chubb said:

I wrote in the previous post that I am not saying I believe it. It is just what I have heard from others who work with this type of strength training. I also said I hope it isn't true. I haven't seen anyone on this board accomplish it nor do you go on youtube and see many adults doing a manna or saying the accomplished one. If the foundation series changes that, we'll see. 

In btgb, Coach says 75% of his senior athletes are able to perform mannas. What are the odds that he ends up with that many genetically able bodies verse everyone else? It's perhaps more of a proper training, starting at young age, and nutrition issue than genetic issue IMO.

stefanhinote said:

In btgb, Coach says 75% of his senior athletes are able to perform mannas. What are the odds that he ends up with that many genetically able bodies verse everyone else? It's perhaps more of a proper training, starting at young age, and nutrition issue than genetic issue IMO.

I am speaking about adults achieving it. Children have much different nervous systems. A lot more pliable. I teach gymnastics to kids and they can all get close to mannas. But of the adults who got a manna in adulthood, the ones who got it, got it within months. I haven't seen an adult accomplish a manna yet who didn't start from a young age but hopefully we will soon.

Alex Chubb said:

I am speaking about adults achieving it. Children have much different nervous systems. A lot more pliable. I teach gymnastics to kids and they can all get close to mannas. But of the adults who got a manna in adulthood, the ones who got it, got it within months. I haven't seen an adult accomplish a manna yet who didn't start from a young age but hopefully we will soon.

Whoops, I missed the adults part. Definitely will be interesting to see what foundation brings to adults, and those starting late in the game.

I'm hoping it brings me a manna.

Carmen has already begun specific elements for manna. Erik has also made substantial progress on the last couple steps.

Manna is like mobility: it requires work on weaknesses that the majority of adults fail to dedicate time on. It's different thinking, not genetic predisposition.

i think that genetic predisposition can be valid for what is concerned with muscles origin and size. i noticed that the origin of my lats is very low and i put on muscles in this part very fast, and also in the triceps that are bigger then biceps (i think that pommel horse and breakdance tricks are the causes)..seriously everytimes i try to push my hips forward seems that the only way to do that is use a large distance between hands. i noticed it also in back lever, at shoulders distance the arms at triceps level are locked in the movement by the lats

I currently have a middle split hold and do spotted manna 2 times a week. They are difficult but don't feel impossible. This is all from foundation work.

Manna is possible for adults. Why do most fail....lack of patience. Even with proper steps and training which most also do not have they will not have the patience and perseverance to keep training and let it come. As an adult without a very god background you will not rush this movement.

That is understood. But what is strange to see is that no one has accomplished it. We see great progress here with presses, planches, front and back levers, side levers, bowers ect. But not many mannas. Those pictures of Erik and Carmen are nice though. And I've read Erik's log so I see how much work he's put into it.

Time...give them more of it.

Alex Chubb said:

That is understood. But what is strange to see is that no one has accomplished it. We see great progress here with presses, planches, front and back levers, side levers, bowers ect. But not many mannas. Those pictures of Erik and Carmen are nice though. And I've read Erik's log so I see how much work he's put into it.

Most likely won't see very much progress from my manna in the next little while. I'm unable to dedicate as much focus on my gymnastic training as I was in the last few years, so everything is more or less slowed down or on maintenance. After that, it's right back to it, though. 

I think that one of the key things for something like Manna is to be spotted in the position so that you can get a feel for the position, what it feels like to lower down out of it, and what it feels like to (eventually) lift into it.

Just like with handstand, it makes a really big difference to have someone there with you.

Having said that, Manna's no joke. It will be an awesome day when we start having people who start GST as adults doing mannas.

We have everything we need with the Foundation program, now it's just time and, perhaps, some luck, but mostly time and consistency.

Manna is now definetly a looooonnnngggg term goal of mine. Especially after we got F1. Before F1 and the Helsiniki seminar i was in the same belief as mentioned above (that it is only possible for some people) and I basically ignored training for it but now I´m going to give it a try. Long term goal though. For me it feels like my lats are "in the way" but I would rather say that retracting-depressing my shoulders while in support position  is my weak link.

Mats Trane said:

Manna is now definetly a looooonnnngggg term goal of mine. Especially after we got F1. Before F1 and the Helsiniki seminar i was in the same belief as mentioned above (that it is only possible for some people) and I basically ignored training for it but now I´m going to give it a try. Long term goal though. For me it feels like my lats are "in the way" but I would rather say that retracting-depressing my shoulders while in support position  is my weak link.

I felt the same way about my lats when I first began training the middle split hold. Eventually I got around that by entering the MSH with my shoulders mildly retracted and my arms placed behind my lats. 

Too big lats or triceps should not get in the way of doing a manna, unless you're like pro bodybuilder size. If you're lats are really big, doing what Hari says helps. Placing you're hands pretty wide from eachother is also not a problem - I do mine with hands quite a bit farther than shoulder width.

I'm considering getting F1 just for the help on the manna. I really want to accomplish it.

Hari_Seldon said:

I felt the same way about my lats when I first began training the middle split hold. Eventually I got around that by entering the MSH with my shoulders mildly retracted and my arms placed behind my lats. 

the thing is elementary....or maybe i'm stupid!!!

thumb up!

Would you guys consider this move to be harder than a Full planche?

I've seen a lot more people with a planchette than manna. Then again I think people think a planche is cooler so they are more inclined to train for it. And ingnastoca it's a staple exercise.