Can't even do the frog stand!

I can't even do the damn frog stand...this is embarassing.

Now I'll admit that I haven't been doing the planche and front lever progressions lately, but I just can't do it right.

The kid in the picture seems to draw a straight line with his back and his head, and his arms are almost straight, he's pretty high up there; mine is disastrous: my back is a complete arch, I bend my arms too much, and my head is only like 10" from the ground, around there.

Isn't this supposed to be one of the "basic" stuff? Or is this how you actually start out?

I might consider posting a video here, for pointers...but I think it would be too humiliating

Is there any video of someone getting into the FS?

Keep on trying. Being out of the game awhile, hurts.

nothing to be embarassed about at all. Coach's athletes are incredibley well conditioned and have reached levels which take a lot of patience and persistence to achieve.

The planche is a very advanced skill, try working some of the back lever progressions, ring supports and bent arm pressing variations.

Rampage said:

Isn't this supposed to be one of the "basic" stuff? Or is this how you actually start out?

in this context basic does not necessarily mean easy. Basic strength should perhaps be replaced with foundation strength. If you watch any gymnastic routine you will notice that almost all the skills are performed dynamically or explosively. In order to achieve this it is required to build a solid foundation and then work on the dynamic aspect.

Blairbob said:

Keep on trying. Being out of the game awhile, hurts.

But is this how you actually start out?

Sometimes, yes. A basic frog stand is a skill requiring some balance and technique?

Can you do a free Headstand at all?

Blairbob said:

Sometimes, yes. A basic frog stand is a skill requiring some balance and technique?

Can you do a free Headstand at all?

I haven't tried to do that, because it looks dangerous, but I could try it out.

Is there an article with the steps and stuff to do it?

Blairbob said:

Sometimes, yes. A basic frog stand is a skill requiring some balance and technique?

Can you do a free Headstand at all?

But what's the relation with the headstand?

The relation is basic balancing. A headstand has 3 points of stabilization while a frog stand has only two.

If a gymnast can't do a free headstand, I don't see the point of training the frogstand; whether their arms are not strong enough or they don't have enough coordination.

Blairbob said:

The relation is basic balancing. A headstand has 3 points of stabilization while a frog stand has only two.

If a gymnast can't do a free headstand, I don't see the point of training the frogstand; whether their arms are not strong enough or they don't have enough coordination.

Isn't the headstand easier than a HS though?

yes.

Blairbob said:

yes.

Alright so I can hold a hs for like 40+ seconds right now (with the wall), because I haven't been able to practice as much as I have wanted, and I really want to get into the planche progressions, so why can't I do the frog stand? Did you say you were going to put a video showing how to properly do it?

I realize a video of a frog stand would be useless to most here, but I really want to get into these progressions.

I may have missed something, but are you talking about the basic frog stand (with bent arms) or the advanced one (with straight arms and the knees leaning on the triceps/elbow)? The advanced frog stand is definitely harder.

biomieg said:

I may have missed something, but are you talking about the basic frog stand (with bent arms) or the advanced one (with straight arms and the knees leaning on the triceps/elbow)? The advanced frog stand is definitely harder.

I'm talking about the basic FS, the one where you also hold yourself with your knees; the next progression that appears of the FS, you only hold yourself with your arms.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=frogstand&search_type=&aq=f

A lot of videos on the frogstand.

I am talking of a free headstand. A 40s wall HS does not mean you have any capability in the balance of a free HeS/HS. You should be strong enough for the frogstand, but I dunno.

The only difference between the frogstand and advanced frogstand is that the arms are straight in the advanced version. The knees still rest on the elbows or arms. You can place the knees on the outside, behind, or inside of the arms but the arms must be straight.

Rampage said:

I'm talking about the basic FS, the one where you also hold yourself with your knees; the next progression that appears of the FS, you only hold yourself with your arms.

Like Blairbob said, FS and advanced FS both use knee-on-arm support (bent arms and straight arms, respectively). What you call the next progression of the FS sounds like the tuck planche and that one is definitely harder than either variation of the FS.

*edit* Okay, I guess you were talking about the kid's picture in Coach's article on the website in your first post... that explains my confusion. In the book there are two separate pictures for the frog stand:

1) Basic FS, which has the arms bent about 90° and the knees resting on the outside of the arms at elbow level. You should start with this one in order to learn how to balance.

2) Advanced FS, which has completely straight arms (elbows locked) and the knees resting on the back side of the elbow (or lowest portion of the triceps).

The pic in the article shows a kind of hybrid where the arms are almost straight and the knees are resting on the outside of the arms.

If balance is your problem, start with the basic FS with your arms bent (a lot).

biomieg said:

Like Blairbob said, FS and advanced FS both use knee-on-arm support (bent arms and straight arms, respectively). What you call the next progression of the FS sounds like the tuck planche and that one is definitely harder than either variation of the FS.

*edit* Okay, I guess you were talking about the kid's picture in Coach's article on the website in your first post... that explains my confusion.

Yeah, that's the one I was talking about 8)

biomieg said:

In the book there are two separate pictures for the frog stand:

1) Basic FS, which has the arms bent about 90° and the knees resting on the outside of the arms at elbow level. You should start with this one in order to learn how to balance.

2) Advanced FS, which has completely straight arms (elbows locked) and the knees resting on the back side of the elbow (or lowest portion of the triceps).

The pic in the article shows a kind of hybrid where the arms are almost straight and the knees are resting on the outside of the arms.

If balance is your problem, start with the basic FS with your arms bent (a lot).

Yeah, I think my problem is that I bend my arms too much, so I am too low on it, but I didn't practice yesterday, I'll try today. Thanks for the tips...

Rampage,

Is it possible to record a quick video of you attempting the FS and posting it here? It might make it easier for people to offer help

Brandon said:

Rampage,

Is it possible to record a quick video of you attempting the FS and posting it here? It might make it easier for people to offer help

Yeah, I'll record one later on tonight.

Something I experimented with the other day but haven't tried out long term, is to do the planche progression in a shallow pool of water (e.g. a kids pool). The water takes some of the weight.

The kids pool I tried it in was 60cm (approx 2 feet) deep at the deepest and on one side of the pool the bottom is sloped so that the depth decreases. As you move into a shallower part of the pool the exercise gets harder.

Regards,

Craig.

I am always afraid of falling forward on my face when I do this. Also you need wrist extensibility if you're doing it with flat palms. If you do it on paralette/pushup hadles then your thumbs are forward but then you still need to focus on keeping it stable.

One idea I had that I haven't tried out much yet is to do this with a soft couch in front of you. That way if you tilt forward, either your upper arms or face will hit the couch instead of the ground. It's soft and not a big call compared to hitting the floor so it seems like a good net.

Sorry I haven't posted the video, the weather's pretty bad here and honestly I forgot.

I'll probably post it tomorrow.

But, I taped some attempts I did a while ago, and I think there is some improvement.

I seemed to keep my upper body higher this time, as opposed to almost kissing the ground last time, but now what happened was that my feet were too close to the ground. Couldn't get them higher.

The only other thing worthy of notice was that my wrists were killing me. Felt a lot of pressure therein this time around. That normal?

Rampage, wrists and joints can be a weak point for many people coming to GB/gymnastics.