Is Gluten and Dairy Bad? Your Opinions...

The moment I started exercising I gradually started to analyse my diet and the foods I was eating. For the past 3 years I have done a lot of research on the internet about nutrition. Out of all the research that I have done there are 2 food groups that I am suspicious about, dairy and gluten. 

No animal in the wild consumes dairy after weaning and the milk they do consume is from their mothers not other animals. If you look at countries that consume the most dairy the rate of osteoporosis is a lot higher. To my knowledge a traditional Japanese diet has no dairy at all and they are known for living the longest.

For me, it is hard to figure out whether gluten is bad or not. It’s not something you’re going to find naturally occurring in nature and it’s not present in a traditional Japanese diet (to my knowledge). 

I would love to hear people’s opinions on this matter.
 

James, 

Good questions, Im sure you are going to get a lot of opinions. Mine is "eat it if it works for you" when it comes to dairy and I prefer to avoid gluten within reason. 

I would look at both sides. Read up on why dairy is great and why its bad. Look at it from a perspective of what works for you. Does it matter what other animals do? Also, gluten is naturally occurring in wheat, rye and barley so it is "natural" which means it must be heathy but so is plutonium and we know thats not good for us. Best of luck finding your answer.

@Jeff Serven You have made some great points, I have heard that yogurt is good for the gut due to all the live cultures. Is this really true or just selling point?

Good question! So when it comes to yogurt there is so much mis information out there its crazy. Full fat greek yogurt is the one with all the live cultures that people are after. This is a yogurt that has no flavorings and for most people taste sour(from the fermentation). Getting some yoplay is like drinking grape kook-aid and saying its as good as eating grapes. 

Go buy a legit Greek yogurt and google the cultures they call out then read up on em. Here is the main one. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_acidophilus

Then read up on the anti dairy stuff. Google: Dairy, cell growth. 

Thanks, will check it out.

Cliffs:

-I drink lots of milk

-Read page about milk being bad - got scared

-Did more digging, turns out its probably fine

-1st result on google was quite biased - this concerns me.

----

I haven't even looked into the gluten stuff yet, but the milk stuff is all over the place. Finding out weather or not milk is good for me was important because I'll typically drink up to a gallon of whole milk a day when putting on size, so if there were any bad effects, I'd get them. 

I first googled "osteoporosis from milk" and the first link was some person giving all these reasons for why milk consumption can increase osteoporosis. They sounded really convincing and seemed to be looking at scientific studies, and I started to get quite worried about my bones.

http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

However, a few alarm bells rang for me. First, they used this: "The countries with the highest rate of osteoporosis are the ones where people drink the most milk and have the most calcium in their diet." This sounds convincing, but really isnt. It's classic correlation - causation confusion, and doesnt take into account many factors which, when controlled for, mitigate the difference. This claim was a key piece of evidence for their argument, since all the other evidence simply said that dairy didnt reduuce the risk of osteoperosis. 

The second (and stronger) alarm bell rang when they hinted that GMO foods should also be avoided. I'm much more confident that GMO food is fine as I am more educated on this topic, and as such this put the whole rest of the article into a bad light. This is becuase people who are cautious of GMO foods are almost always falling prey to the naturalistic fallacy (if its natural it's good, if not then it's bad), and this influences lots of their views on diets.

I found this page to be much more balanced and informative, and learnt some stuff from it too.

 https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/ 

I wrote this because I found it alarming that the first result from a google search was so misleading. Hopefully this helped a comrade out.

Gluten is naturally in wheat and other grains, but what is extremely unnatural is that we, humans/society process the grains so much… we take out everything that's good in whole foods, just to inject them with chemical vitamins and colors. No good. We, humans/society eat so much processed foods that it becomes a problem. The body gets too sensitive to the overload of gluten (as an example, but there is much of other stuff too). We eat gluten in cereal, breads, pastas, condiments, sauces, name it… almost everything. It's way too much. Also, wheat can stay fresh for only about 14 days before it becomes rancid… and pretty much everything in the stores is older than that. If you buy your own wheat berries and grind them at home, and make your own food out of it, you may be ok...

Dairy… there is really nothing healthy for us, humans, in dairy. The calcium for the bones is a myth (dairy companies try to tell us that so we would buy more of it). Eating dairy crates more acidic environment in your body, which for us athletes, is no good, because it support inflammation and you don't recover as fast as you could. And more stuff with dairy, hormones, antibiotics, etc… I don't even go there. Regarding yogurt, get yourself fermented foods instead, and you will be better off.

Try to do an experiment on yourself (so did I years ago). 

Stop eating gluten for 2–3 weeks. But really stop everything gluten. Read the labels. It's in almost everything. Then see how you feel and recover and how your energy levels are. If you feel better (I am almost sure you will), you have the answers. 

Then do the same with dairy. I bet you will feel better too. Don't do them at the same time, because you wouldn't know which one is working and which one not. 

There is a lot of great research out there, just look up some of the doctors and names in plant-based nutrition field. Dr. Greger, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Campbell… etc. 

I consume a lot of dairy products, all of which are from NZ (so mostly from pastured cows) and mostly organic (no palm kernel oil/antibiotics/added hormones). A glass of kefir in the morning and milk with high-fibre-low sugar cereal. Then +30 g whey protein after my workout and finally a glass of yoghurt before bed. No signs of inflammation (low hs-CRP and low white cell count at the bottom of the normal range). I also eat other fermented foods daily: natto, kimchi and sauerkraut. I feel good, have high energy and no digestive problems.

In terms of bone health I think I've got it covered: Vitamin K2 (MK-7) from natto, vitamin D3 from a supplement and oily fish, chelated magnesium from a supplement and silicon from mineral water I like to guzzle. Obviously I get enough calcium too. Haven't had broken or fractured bones. You can have problems with excess calcium if the osteocalcin that is produced in your body remains uncarboxylated due to lack of vitamin K2. Then the stuff can accumulate in your soft tissues instead.

So from personal experience I think dairy is great as long as the milk is produced without any nasty stuff.

A percentage of the population has varying degrees of both gluten and lactose intolerance, I have read 6% have some level of gluten intolerance.  Personally I have a light lactose intolerance so I immediately notice improvements when I stop consuming it.  The previous advice to "do an experiment on yourself" is good.  Focus on finding the foods that work well for you, and read some Michael Pollan http://michaelpollan.com/reviews/how-to-eat/  of course he notes the French affinity for cheeses and how they can be healthy too.

my opinion is with Jeff, if you feel good, then why change it? Just because everyone says "omg its bad you're killing yourself" c'mon. 90% of todays food is just marketing, from paleo to vegan. Everybody thinks he has the "one" key to one universal food pattern and diet. again, c'mon, grow up. There is no universal diet, just maybe a more natural one. choose farmers raw milk (grass fed), grassfed meat, whole wheat, fruits and vegetables from your area and from there, if you still feel bloated or anything, cool, its not for you. Many people just feel more healthy, cause they shift from industrial food to whole food. 

13 hours ago, Suzanna McGee said:

 

Stop eating gluten for 2–3 weeks. But really stop everything gluten. Read the labels. It's in almost everything. Then see how you feel and recover and how your energy levels are. If you feel better (I am almost sure you will), you have the answers. 

Then do the same with dairy. I bet you will feel better too. Don't do them at the same time, because you wouldn't know which one is working and which one not. 

 

This is exactly what i did! Felt no difference with or without dairy but without gluten made a nice difference on me.

I can eat all gluten that I want! But hell, I cannot eat a piece of wheat with gluten! I felt a tremendous difference when I stopped eating wheat but I continue eating spelt, oats and other grains with gluten with absolutely no problem. This might sound crazy, but I just try and I feel it, i don t need any other proof. If one feel good carry on, if you feel slightly bad, make a change for some time and see the difference. It might need time but it s the best! In general I don t have problems with diaries, altought I don t eat them too much, except Ice cream...

Since I stopped consuming dairy a couple of months ago, it's hard to say if there is any difference because I was never consciously thinking about it. I will say that I don't get that aching feeling in the legs anymore (the one when your parents tell you it's just growing pains). Whether this is due to not consuming dairy or something else I don't know. I think I have to experiment a lot more, bringing dairy back in and taking it out and seeing if there are any differences. As for Gluten, in my current situation it's hard to remove from my diet because I don't have a job and thus I can't buy other foods to replace the calorie loss.    

On 29 August 2016 at 11:55 PM, Antonio Alías Montoya said:

I can eat all gluten that I want! But hell, I cannot eat a piece of wheat with gluten! I felt a tremendous difference when I stopped eating wheat but I continue eating spelt, oats and other grains with gluten with absolutely no problem. This might sound crazy, but I just try and I feel it, i don t need any other proof. If one feel good carry on, if you feel slightly bad, make a change for some time and see the difference. It might need time but it s the best! In general I don t have problems with diaries, altought I don t eat them too much, except Ice cream...

 

You could be intolerant to yeast rather than gluten. 

Mmmm, maybe! I remember feeling really bad after eating bread, but not so much after eating other wheat products as pasta. I ve never done myself a medical test to know. The only thing I am sure 100% is that I can  eat other grains with gluten and  that I can t it wheat bread. I ve also tried non gluten wheat pasta and pizza and no problem, but I have never tried to eat no gluten bread or other grains bread that have gluten! So that is a possibility. But now I am afraid i d be a little bit scared of trying normal pasta or pizza again, because If I feel as bad as with the bread is horrible...

Interesting thread. The topic of nutrition is much simpler than we are told by the numerous "experts" on the subject. Generally, "natural" is a good rule of thumb. "Natural" does NOT mean "make use of any one thing that you can find in nature." Lava is not healthy to bathe in, nor is plutonium safe to eat (in large quantities ). In my opinion "natural" means doing the things our body is designed for and thrives by.

If you look at it that way, it makes lots of sense to look at what animals generally do, especially in terms of nutrition, because biologically we have lots of similarities. The mammals that have the closest resemblance to humans, like gorillas, chimpanzees, baboons, apes etc., don't have dieticians to tell them what to eat and what not to eat. They don't schedule their meals. They don't use pesticides. They don't count calories. They don't drink milk unless they're babies, and certainly not from other animal species. They don't heat or cook food. They don't eat meat. They don't count protein intake. They listen to their own body.

We as contemporary humans have nearly completely lost our ability to connect with nature and to be in touch with our true feelings and our bodies. We have been taught to look to others for guidance and advice instead of using our own independent thinking.

This is why there are a ton of different opinions. And although it's true that everyone is different, there many things that you can generally state about humans, just as you can say that most of us have two arms, two legs, one head and one heart.

As very general guidelines:

The less processed the food we eat, the healthier it is. Cooking and heating food is one of the heaviest forms of processing, as heating something above around F140 / 60C destroys the structure of nutrients and enzymes. We are the only mammal that cooks and eats non-fresh, non-raw food and we pay the price for it.

Dairy is generally not good. First of all, it is mother's milk of other animal species. Everyone knows that mother's milk is meant for babies. We as humans are the only ones that steal mother's milk from other animals to feed ourselves, not only as babies but also as adults. What's worse, we heat it before we drink it, so any nutrients in it are alienated or destroyed.

Meat is generally not good. Contrary to what we have been taught, we are NOT natural hunters. We are conditioned hunters that make (mis)use of technology. Without technology, we are laughable as hunters.

Natural born hunters as the lion, cheetah, etc. have tremendous speed, nightvision, amazing hearing abilities, they are able to chase down and kill their prey with their own claws, rip it apart with their teeth (don't do this at home, you will break your teeth), and then proceed to drink the raw blood, devour the raw organs, including the bowels that are full of feces, and then as left overs eat the muscle tissue (also raw). Humans don't do any of this stuff. Merely the idea of eating raw meat or raw blood, disgusts us and we can get very sick if we eat rotten meat. Also, any natural born hunter can kill its prey using just his own physical abilities. I would like to see a 60 year old human try to catch a cow with his bare hands, kill it barehanded, and then rip through the skin with his teeth and eat it raw. It would make for an amazing Youtube video. Chances of that happening? Zero. Because we are simply not natural born hunters.

We are natural herbivores. If you put a hungry toddler in a crib with a rabbit and an apple, he will eat the apple and play with the rabbit. Its instinct will not be to jump on the rabbit and tear it apart with its teeth and eating it raw.

So no dairy, no meat, what's left to eat? Exactly what we would eat if we as humans would be left to our own natural devices. It is very similar to what apes would eat.

Fruits, nuts, greens, plants, seeds, preferably organic and raw (not cooked or heated). In our society, this is not an easy feat. But it can be done. I'm (raw) vegan myself and I can tell you that since I stopped eating animal products, all the "weird" things I suffered from that my doctor couldn't explain and couldn't give me advice on went away within one-two months. My knee used to lock in place after running, after which I couldn't walk for two days. The doctor said: learn to live with it. I had eczema spots at random spots on my body. The doctor said: maybe it's genetic. I had bad breath. Constipation. Acne spots. Dry skin. Pain in my joints. The flu every few months. The list goes on. All of that went away within a few weeks after I stopped eating meat and dairy. I can't even remember the last time I had a cold or flu, but it's at least three years ago.

Anyway, I'm not a preacher, I'm not the vegan police, everyone should make decisions for themselves, and ultimately that is the most important advice I can give:

Think for yourself, use your own critical thinking. Ask questions. Don't trust advice just because it comes from a source of self-proclaimed authority. Dieticians, teachers, scientists, coaches, doctors etc can and have been wrong many, many times in the past and present, so develop your own critical thinking. Especially everything that seems to be "scientific" seems to have a hypnotic effect on people where they think that if something is said by a scientist, it must be true.

This is very dangerous. First of all, scientists can't even agree among themselves on certain things, so many things are up for debate. Second, until recently science told us that humans can't survive in icewater longer than a few minutes. And that humans would die if they are exposed to extremely low temperatures. Wim Hof, also known as the Iceman, has made utter fools of these scientists, by climbing the Kilimanjaro in his underwear, accompanied by many people doing the same and taking icebaths with the same ease as taking a normal bath. Of course, now the scientists claim that it IS possible, while all the while they made Wim Hof ridiculous. So don't trust information automatically just because it is presented as "science". Again think for yourself.

Anyway, time to end this post since it has been dragging on for too long.

I hope I helped to give a different perspective on things. If you don't agree with anything I have said, that's fine too. Unfortunately, communicating this way has its limitations, but I hope my 2cts where helpful.
 

1 hour ago, Niko Mailand said:

If you look at it that way, it makes lots of sense to look at what animals generally do, especially in terms of nutrition, because biologically we have lots of similarities. The mammals that have the closest resemblance to humans, like gorillas, chimpanzees, baboons, apes etc., don't have dieticians to tell them what to eat and what not to eat. They don't schedule their meals. They don't use pesticides. They don't count calories. They don't drink milk unless they're babies, and certainly not from other animal species. They don't heat or cook food. They don't eat meat. They don't count protein intake. They listen to their own body.

@Niko Mailand Amazing post, the entire one, even though I quoted just a short excerpt. All you wrote is my personal experience… I have tried pretty much every "dietary" approach through my 51-years old life trying to figure out what is the best for me… however, first now, 4–5 years ago, I came to same revelation—eating as close to natural (and I mean really natural, whole foods) state as possible. 

Suddenly all my issues, whatever they were, solved. I am not overeating, I am not eating on a clock (every 2–3 hours like I used to as a bodybuilder), not obsessing about getting enough protein (because what society and advertising tells us we have to eat really is not it), I stop when I am full because I don't have cravings. I have constant energy and I feel light and alert. Sometimes I eat more, sometimes less, I let my body guide me. I eat mostly fruits, then vegetables, some sprouted grains, a few nuts here and there. It is simple. I don't cook. I don't microwave (got rid of it 10+ years ago). I don't eat food that is processed in any way. I can truly say this has been the best thing that happened to my body and mind. I don't feel restricted by any means, and I don't feel missing any of the processed foods. 

I do not want to preach either. It is just so exciting that I want to tell everybody  :-) the majority of my athletes/students transitioned to this kind of "simple" eating and they all got healthy, super fit, at their optimal weight and thriving. That makes me happy. I wish more people would give it a try, they would be so pleasantly surprised.  

9 hours ago, Niko Mailand said:

Interesting thread. The topic of nutrition is much simpler than we are told by the numerous "experts" on the subject. Generally, "natural" is a good rule of thumb. "Natural" does NOT mean "make use of any one thing that you can find in nature." Lava is not healthy to bathe in, nor is plutonium safe to eat (in large quantities ). In my opinion "natural" means doing the things our body is designed for and thrives by.

If you look at it that way, it makes lots of sense to look at what animals generally do, especially in terms of nutrition, because biologically we have lots of similarities. The mammals that have the closest resemblance to humans, like gorillas, chimpanzees, baboons, apes etc., don't have dieticians to tell them what to eat and what not to eat. They don't schedule their meals. They don't use pesticides. They don't count calories. They don't drink milk unless they're babies, and certainly not from other animal species. They don't heat or cook food. They don't eat meat. They don't count protein intake. They listen to their own body.

We as contemporary humans have nearly completely lost our ability to connect with nature and to be in touch with our true feelings and our bodies. We have been taught to look to others for guidance and advice instead of using our own independent thinking.

This is why there are a ton of different opinions. And although it's true that everyone is different, there many things that you can generally state about humans, just as you can say that most of us have two arms, two legs, one head and one heart.

As very general guidelines:

The less processed the food we eat, the healthier it is. Cooking and heating food is one of the heaviest forms of processing, as heating something above around F140 / 60C destroys the structure of nutrients and enzymes. We are the only mammal that cooks and eats non-fresh, non-raw food and we pay the price for it.

Dairy is generally not good. First of all, it is mother's milk of other animal species. Everyone knows that mother's milk is meant for babies. We as humans are the only ones that steal mother's milk from other animals to feed ourselves, not only as babies but also as adults. What's worse, we heat it before we drink it, so any nutrients in it are alienated or destroyed.

Meat is generally not good. Contrary to what we have been taught, we are NOT natural hunters. We are conditioned hunters that make (mis)use of technology. Without technology, we are laughable as hunters.

Natural born hunters as the lion, cheetah, etc. have tremendous speed, nightvision, amazing hearing abilities, they are able to chase down and kill their prey with their own claws, rip it apart with their teeth (don't do this at home, you will break your teeth), and then proceed to drink the raw blood, devour the raw organs, including the bowels that are full of feces, and then as left overs eat the muscle tissue (also raw). Humans don't do any of this stuff. Merely the idea of eating raw meat or raw blood, disgusts us and we can get very sick if we eat rotten meat. Also, any natural born hunter can kill its prey using just his own physical abilities. I would like to see a 60 year old human try to catch a cow with his bare hands, kill it barehanded, and then rip through the skin with his teeth and eat it raw. It would make for an amazing Youtube video. Chances of that happening? Zero. Because we are simply not natural born hunters.

We are natural herbivores. If you put a hungry toddler in a crib with a rabbit and an apple, he will eat the apple and play with the rabbit. Its instinct will not be to jump on the rabbit and tear it apart with its teeth and eating it raw.

So no dairy, no meat, what's left to eat? Exactly what we would eat if we as humans would be left to our own natural devices. It is very similar to what apes would eat.

Fruits, nuts, greens, plants, seeds, preferably organic and raw (not cooked or heated). In our society, this is not an easy feat. But it can be done. I'm (raw) vegan myself and I can tell you that since I stopped eating animal products, all the "weird" things I suffered from that my doctor couldn't explain and couldn't give me advice on went away within one-two months. My knee used to lock in place after running, after which I couldn't walk for two days. The doctor said: learn to live with it. I had eczema spots at random spots on my body. The doctor said: maybe it's genetic. I had bad breath. Constipation. Acne spots. Dry skin. Pain in my joints. The flu every few months. The list goes on. All of that went away within a few weeks after I stopped eating meat and dairy. I can't even remember the last time I had a cold or flu, but it's at least three years ago.

Anyway, I'm not a preacher, I'm not the vegan police, everyone should make decisions for themselves, and ultimately that is the most important advice I can give:

Think for yourself, use your own critical thinking. Ask questions. Don't trust advice just because it comes from a source of self-proclaimed authority. Dieticians, teachers, scientists, coaches, doctors etc can and have been wrong many, many times in the past and present, so develop your own critical thinking. Especially everything that seems to be "scientific" seems to have a hypnotic effect on people where they think that if something is said by a scientist, it must be true.

This is very dangerous. First of all, scientists can't even agree among themselves on certain things, so many things are up for debate. Second, until recently science told us that humans can't survive in icewater longer than a few minutes. And that humans would die if they are exposed to extremely low temperatures. Wim Hof, also known as the Iceman, has made utter fools of these scientists, by climbing the Kilimanjaro in his underwear, accompanied by many people doing the same and taking icebaths with the same ease as taking a normal bath. Of course, now the scientists claim that it IS possible, while all the while they made Wim Hof ridiculous. So don't trust information automatically just because it is presented as "science". Again think for yourself.

Anyway, time to end this post since it has been dragging on for too long.

I hope I helped to give a different perspective on things. If you don't agree with anything I have said, that's fine too. Unfortunately, communicating this way has its limitations, but I hope my 2cts where helpful.
 

This is my philosophy on not only food but life as well (when the opportunity arises I will transition to eating a mostly plant based raw diet). But if my body rejects that then sure I will make changes, I will continue to listen to my body. I don't care about science (it's just a bunch of people with theories), you can't tell me what's good for me only nature and I can. I'm not a robot I don't count my calories, I don't eat three meals a day I eat when I'm hungry, I don't drink the same amount of water a day I drink when I'm thirsty. I think so many people are deaf to their bodies, their bodies are telling them to stop eating that rubbish but they say why should I? The scientist told me it was good for me. 

On 9/1/2016 at 8:17 AM, Niko Mailand said:

If you look at it that way, it makes lots of sense to look at what animals generally do, especially in terms of nutrition, because biologically we have lots of similarities. The mammals that have the closest resemblance to humans, like gorillas, chimpanzees, baboons, apes etc., don't have dieticians to tell them what to eat and what not to eat. They don't schedule their meals. They don't use pesticides. They don't count calories. They don't drink milk unless they're babies, and certainly not from other animal species. They don't heat or cook food. They don't eat meat. They don't count protein intake. They listen to their own body.

 

X is natural

Y is not natural

Therefore X is superior to Y

When I can, I try to kill two birds with one stone, so I only eat my gluten with my dairy and vice versa. It gets the inflammation going. Mmm Mmm, pepperoni pizza.


Also, I can see this post going the way of all the posts that denoted veganism. I say, do what you want, because at the end of the day you're not going to make it out alive. Reason would have it that if it makes you feel like shit, maybe consume less of it or none at all, but, man, who cares. Those who live the longest are often those who enjoy life the most, and if being all nitpicky about this or that probiotic and macronutrient puts the bill in your cap, have at it. Otherwise, move along. As @Coach Sommer has reiterated time and again if diet was the barometer for fitness then all the people who do train but eat well would be amazing athletes, but they're not. So, do what you enjoy and brings you happiness, try to avoid, or just minimize, eating foods sold in packages, that make you feel like shit, or that have ingredients that sound like chemical compounds, eat more raw vegetables, drink more water, and get more sleep. 

47 minutes ago, Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

When I can I really try to kill two birds with one stone, so I only eat my gluten with my dairy and vice versa. It really gets the inflammation going. Mmm mmm, pepperoni pizza.


Also, I can see this post going the way of all the posts that denoted veganism. I say, do what you want, because at the end of the day you're not gonna make it out alive. Reason would have it that if it makes you feel like shit, maybe consume less of it or none at all, but, man, who cares. Those who live the longest are often those who enjoy life the most, and if being all nitpicky about this or that probiotic and macronutrient puts the bill in your cap, have at it. Otherwise, move along. As @Coach Sommer has reiterated time and again if diet was the barometer for fitness then all the people who do train but eat well would be amazing athletes, but they're not. So, do what you enjoy and brings you happiness, try to avoid minimize eating foods sold in packages, that make you feel like shit, or that have ingredients that sound like chemical compounds, eat more raw vegetables, drink more water, and get more sleep. 

Stop being logical...

I need what I eat to largely be decided on the basis of identity

The thing is that 99% of population doesn't even know how it feels to feel good… so the guidance "if it makes you feel like  sh*t, consume less of it" doesn't really work. Because they feel like it all the time, but don't even know it. The numbers speak for themselves, 36% of people are obese. The numbers are climbing. Heart disease, diabetes, cancers (all lifestyle connected) are killing people. This is not a quality life and happiness. They may think that they enjoy it and are happy at the moment of sucking in that meal or drink, but really? It is kind of like @Coach Sommer's idea of "Immature" athlete… they want the "happiness" right now, while they are actually losing the happiness in the future. Sick at 50. While they could be living healthy and quality life up to 100. I think that is more "mature" approach to life. I'll skip the pepperoni pizza  

19 hours ago, Suzanna McGee said:

The thing is that 99% of population doesn't even know how it feels to feel good… so the guidance "if it makes you feel like  sh*t, consume less of it" doesn't really work. Because they feel like it all the time, but don't even know it. The numbers speak for themselves, 36% of people are obese. The numbers are climbing. Heart disease, diabetes, cancers (all lifestyle connected) are killing people. This is not a quality life and happiness. They may think that they enjoy it and are happy at the moment of sucking in that meal or drink, but really? It is kind of like @Coach Sommer's idea of "Immature" athlete… they want the "happiness" right now, while they are actually losing the happiness in the future. Sick at 50. While they could be living healthy and quality life up to 100. I think that is more "mature" approach to life. I'll skip the pepperoni pizza  

 

 

 

Right, but that issue of feeling like shit is more lifestyle-based than it is solely about gluten or dairy. I mean, how many of those obese individuals are also likely to be very active or consistently training? Probably not that many. How many of them are emotionally balanced or with a strong social network? I think that it's just a bit neurotic to be so particular about diet or supplementation. The best signs to a long life that they've found are to have a strong sense of community, lots of laughter, some way to wind down and destress, and then eating a lot of vegetables (in addition to being physically active). So, while isolating yourself away because somebody is serving hot dogs and buns at a bbq, which doesn't fit with your ideology, may be the best bio-hack to reach peak health or whatever, it seems a bit narrow-minded to me. You can only dial things in so much before there's a point of diminishing return. I'd rather enjoy a nice, cold beer or some ice cream with friends than eat my kale chips and vegan flatbread alone. 

Edit: I also don't agree with the notion that 99% of the population doesn't even know how to feel good... That basically seems to say that they can't do right by themselves and NEED to be helped. I think they do know how to feel good, but sometimes people might try to convince them that this or that's not healthy.

No need to isolate myself because I am choosing healthy food. I just BBQ my veggies instead of hotdogs with my people. If they don't have them, I will bring my own. I can be happy and socializing while eating healthy at the same time. Eating healthy is not a restriction at this point. I am not "suffering" by not eating that other stuff. I am choosing my healthy food because they make me feel good, light, strong and energized. And happy  :-) 

One thing everyone should keep in mind is that 99% of the worlds population has been damaging their bodies since they were born. The only exception would be those who have lived in nature since they were born like the Khoisan of South Africa, Aboriginals of Australia, Indians of America and of course all the other tribes that exist in the world. If you have only started doing exercise and improving your diet at age 30 you need at the very least 30 years to get back to square 1 (you will see improvements a lot sooner but you probably won't be fully healed until you have done your time). Now this will vary from person to person but I would still say that you should aim to be exercising and dieting for as many years as you were not and then you can build upon that.

I'm not going to tell anyone that they should stop doing or eating what they like but rather I will make them become aware of any negative side effects. I will take you to the water but I won't force you to drink it. With that being said I personally want to undo any damage that I have done first before I think of having treats.