HS/PE5 progression and bar weight

I've finally hit a mastery stopper at HS/PE5. I have a limited overhead shoulder mobility (which I'm addressing with the TB stretch course and other things, but its going to take a while). I've managed to do Step3 (3x12sec) with the 2kg ish bar (and oh boy did i get some cramps!) 

My question is, should I try to get to 5x30sec with the broomstick handle (pretty light) and then start adding weight, or see what I can do with my 2kg weighted broomstick?

Hello Katerina, 

For me, the passive shoulder mobility was there, but not the >iM endurance to hold it. So I worked to build the 30 sec with a 5 lb weight from the start by using the 30 sec template. Coach said we need to use weight. It might be different for you, if you don't have the ahoulder active ROM.

Can you post a video? 

I would be great to see someone else's form check. Mine is below, thanks.

Like Eva said, start working up through the steps with your 2kg-ish bar and please post a form check. This is a tough one but well worth the investment.

I'll post one tonight... Your form looks good Eva, I suspect mine's a lot uglier than that! Realising that I need to develop the scapular contraction muscles more (whatever they're called). I had turned-in shoulders for years, have stretched out the tight pecks now but haven't really spent any time on building the back muscles. This exersize is a good indicator of that! 

Also, posting videos of your weighted shoulder flexion and extension mobilities would be a good idea. It's good to have us coaches make sure the first 4 HS iMs are mastery quality before beginning dislocates. Lacking in the weighted shoulder flexion iMs can negatively effect PE5.

Feel free to put it all on 1 YouTube (or similar website) video and attach the link in this thread. Make sure the video is unlisted and not public. 

Thank very much for the advice so far guys. Well I've made the video tonight... Should have made it sooner, is what i think! It's amazing how something can feel good yet look pretty bad :S If I could also mention that I didn't realise that you had to use the weighted bar (and didn't see the Fitness section, as I mostly just use my mobile) until yesterday. It would help if the daily workout schedule had links to those as part of logging the workouts It looks like I'll need to backtrack to the beginning of the HS1 for the mobility. Could you kindly look at the following vid and suggest how do I proceed from here?

... actually I currently already have achieved 20sec+ belly-to-the-wall handstand, so going back to frog stands will be a little bit boring. Forearm headstands 5x60sec were challenging but doable (never tried those before . What do you suggest I pair up with mobility in this regard ? Many thanks for your advice and support.

On iM1-3, you're doing part of a dislocate, which should be avoided. Here, the idea is to flex the shoulders, getting to a 180 degree angle (or more) without dislocating. It should look more like PE5, but seated. Easiest way to understand that is to narrow your grip. You won't be able to dislocate and you will feel what it's supposed to be.

On iM2-3, your grip is wrong, so you need to reverse it. Also, when you do, try to keep your wrists in line with your arms. The ROM itself looks pretty good, but these adjustments may just reduce it.

For dislocates, widen your grip a tad. You're fine on the way down, but on the way back you bend your elbows a little bit. This is simply because the way back is harder, but that needs to be where you start. Also, don't forget to really elevate at the top.

I think that's it, I'll let the forum coaches add to it if I forgot anything or correct me if I'm wrong.

35 minutes ago, Briac Roquet said:

On iM1-3, you're doing part of a dislocate, which should be avoided. Here, the idea is to flex the shoulders, getting to a 180 degree angle (or more) without dislocating. It should look more like PE5, but seated. Easiest way to understand that is to narrow your grip. You won't be able to dislocate and you will feel what it's supposed to be.

On iM2-3, your grip is wrong, so you need to reverse it. Also, when you do, try to keep your wrists in line with your arms. The ROM itself looks pretty good, but these adjustments may just reduce it.

For dislocates, widen your grip a tad. You're fine on the way down, but on the way back you bend your elbows a little bit. This is simply because the way back is harder, but that needs to be where you start. Also, don't forget to really elevate at the top.

I think that's it, I'll let the forum coaches add to it if I forgot anything or correct me if I'm wrong.

All that makes sense, thanks Briac. Back to the drawing board.... I guess I need to work on these mobility exercizes until the strength+ROM builds up? And leave handstands for "play time"?

Yes Katerina. Drawing board is the best way to build the handstand you want. It will be time well invested.

Make sure you work each pair (PE/>iM) one at a time, meaning don't move to the next one until you master the previous one in good form. The difficulty and complexity builds up with each progression, so there's really no point in advancing if your form is not good. I found these iMs are "harder" than they look when done correctly. Good thing you posted a video early on. You'll save a lot of time and aggravation! 

Exactly. Take it back to the basics, complete those sets for the day, and then spend some time "playing" with handstand after, if you still have the energy.

So if you can do HS/PE5 with 2 kilos for 5*30 sec is it enough to progress to PE6? If not what weight is required for mastery? :-)

That is good enough for mastery.

It is enough, consider the idea to keep the last element mastered as a final part of your workout and improve weight / time as a long therm goal.

Thanks for your reply!