HS-PE5 Form check

I’m starting to be more “comfortable” with this element so I wanted to check my form. At the beginning it was very hard to keep ppt with shoulder flexion. Now I feel I can lock my ppt from the start and only feel tension in my abs (not my lower back). I think I have the protraction and elevation dialed in, along with the idea of pushing my armpits down and knees of the floor. I’ve build my sets to 5 x 30s and I’m doing 5 lb. It’s usually harder to maintain the height of the bar in my last 2 sets. Here are my 4 and 5th sets. Please let me know your thoughts.

Question:
I’m making an effort to keep my wrist/grip as neutral as I can. I think I read somewhere NOT to extend the wrists. If true, why is this important, considering that the wrist will be extended in HS. 

There are some tips where you can work in order to achieve all the benefits from this PE:

-round your upper back

-move the armpit as much close to the ground, this will involve protraction. very useful for future hs development

-do not push against the floor with feet or knees, if you feel that you are doing this thing simply engage a strong PPT .

Great Alessandro. I'll try it the above this Thu, thank you! 

Can anybody share a video link to correct form for this PE (other than the course vid)?

I've tried the adjustments above (more protraction and rounder upper back) and they seemed to lift my chest of the floor (like alien) and decrease shoulder flexion dramatically in a way that didn't feel right (I got more closed shoulders) nor comfortable (if there's such a thing, here). Maybe I took the correction too far and was doing something wrong  – Not pushing with the feet and strong PPT was ok tho.

I don't have a video of this on hand. Can you post your corrections?

Here’s a new video with a more rounded back and Alessandro’s corrections:

nice execution ( maybe reduce a bit the grip) but a side view is more appropriate for this exercise.

Thank you Alessandro for checking this. I wanted you to see what was happening from above in case there was something wrong.

I can easily close my grip that shouldn't be a problem here. 

I also took a side view with a more kyphotic back, but I noticed it closes my shoulder angle a bit. It can feel a little pinchy in the posterior capsule with the combination of thoracic flexion, scapulae elevated, shoulder flexion and protraction. So I had to find a good position to do what you were asking and not feel the pinch. 

Is this the end-range shoulders position that we're trying to strengthen here with ribs in, like in HS?

I'm only using 5 lbs now. If form is ok, I think I could start using more weight. I Looking forward to your guidance on how to progress from here. Thank you!

Looks great! I'd like to add that your chin should be in contact with the floor. Otherwise, solid work Eva.

Will do, thanks Everett! Should I add more weight to the PE?

Btw, here’s my >iM. I’ve been closing my grip to this point.

Nice slow execution, I think that 2 cm more on both sides should be your ultimate goal.

Wow Alessandro, I hope I can work up to this very ambitious goal! I will try my best. I'm working hard to keep my ribs in and not make funny faces. 

Is this my goal now before moving to the next PE/>iM? Or is it more of a long-term goal I could achieve along the way with more time?
How do I know when to move to the next element. Should I stay here now and continue to add weight to my PE in order to feel more challenged?
Thank you for your guidance.

That's pretty nice. Well done Eva I know well the trials of out-stubborning dislocates.

As Ale said, the rule of thumb for mastery is generally hands in line with outside of deltoids, to get that 'shoulder width + 1hand' distance before moving on to the next element. You're on the verge there, but pretty sure you can get over that verge Worth beginning to dabble in undergrip dislocates at this stage though.

Coda;

It's totally, totally worth building up nice shoulder-width or even narrower dislocates; I and others have experienced significant benefits, most notably in side lever and other straight-arm work but plenty of less glamorous shoulder/chest/back health/balance improvements too. These, weighted pancakes, Jefferson curls and lat flyes are my go-to carpet bombing weighted mobility elements; focusing on these invites BIG changes.

Got it Jon. "Now" is the time to do it then – not some distant future, haha.

Thank you for your suggestions! The logical place to insert my undergrip dabble would be at the end of HS1, right?

For lat flies, are you referring to a traditional bent-over reverse flies with DBs? Or are these done hanging from a fix bar kinda like a hinge row upper movement? 

Last, for weighted pancake is the grip shoulder-width + 1hand or wider? If the later, is the beginning of a dislocate allowed then? I remember reading a post from Coach saying NOT to use plates on your back! Unfortunately, that's how I learned to do them in the past, but looking forward to try them with a bar, once I understand the technique. Thanks again!

On August 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Eva Pelegrin said:

Will do, thanks Everett! Should I add more weight to the PE?

Btw, here’s my >iM. I’ve been closing my grip to this point.

 

 

@Eva Pelegrin wow, that is a beautiful dislocate… I am now at PE4/PE5, but my dislocates are wiiiide compared to you… from all the tennis and pole dancing beating of my shoulders. I will have to really spend a lot of time here. How long have you been working on your dislocates?  Great job!

On 05/08/2016 at 9:15 PM, Eva Pelegrin said:

Got it Jon. "Now" is the time to do it then – not some distant future, haha.

Thank you for your suggestions! The logical place to insert my undergrip dabble would be at the end of HS1, right?

For lat flies, are you referring to a traditional bent-over reverse flies with DBs? Or are these done hanging from a fix bar kinda like a hinge row upper movement? 

Last, for weighted pancake is the grip shoulder-width + 1hand or wider? If the later, is the beginning of a dislocate allowed then? I remember reading a post from Coach saying NOT to use plates on your back! Unfortunately, that's how I learned to do them in the past, but looking forward to try them with a bar, once I understand the technique. Thanks again!

Hey, sorry, been away a couple weeks due to moving house

1) Correct on the dabbling.

2) More like the second one. Need to have some fairly good depression to perform them correctly, but they are very underrated and a big return on a very simple movement

3) The rules for weighted pancakes and dislocates are different Last week I upped my sets from 30 to 35kg, which is far too heavy for me to dislocate in any sort of reasonable width. I think I use about a 2x shoulder width for these? Even then it's only a partial dislocate.
 Of course you could combine the two and use a narrower grip, but I think this would give you sub-par effort on each half of it; better to keep them distinct in my opinion

@Suzanna McGee
Thank you for stopping by. I started dislocates prior to GB. I’ve been teaching them as a general mobility tool with my clients – especially golfers and tennis players. With my elders, I start them with bands dislocates, unloaded ( if you can believe that) and they’re still very effective.

I’ve only been focusing in narrowing my grip over the last 2 months, but already had some experience with them, so it’s hard to pinpoint a true starting date. I will say that narrowing your dislocate is a months (if not) years affair:) for most people. I began GB in January and according to the GB coaches, I still have 2 cm more to go on both ends. Ouch! Once you get closer and closer, the challenge and risks increase so I'm taking it slowly with the mindset that I will get there whenever I arrive, lol. Basically, I'm listening and negotiating with my body to see what's possible week by week, without pushing too much.

One way to describe my current training state of mind with GB is ACC (Autonomous Cruise Control). I automatically adjust my body speed/progress to maintain a "safe distance" and hopefully stay away from more injuries. I already have plenty of old injuries and stuff to babysit around me and I really can't afford more setbacks. I hope my perspective helps you in some way. Best wishes! 
 

@Jon Douglas Never too late (when you believe you're in heaven) and thank you for your organized reply. 

2) When I started hinge rows, I immediately thought they were some kind of regression or way scaled down gymnast variation of lat flies that Coach came up for us mere mortals, haha. Luckily, hinge rows came very easy for me after surgery, whereas my good ol' rows are coming back at glacial pace and really testing my patience. 

3) Yes, partial dislocate in weighted pancake (that's what I was trying to say). I'm with you that it is best to train both separately rather than merge them in one. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to train much of MS because I have a “pain in the ass” strain at the origin of adductor magnus and the last thing I want to do is to stretch it! This is the exact same damn spot I had in 2014 MRI, so I’m being very cautious and patient (it's been over 3.5 months now since it re-appeared). I’m loading it enough with everyday movement/F1. I also teach 2 classes a week that I use as a measurement stick of discomfort/ROM. My lunges are veeery slowly getting better depth wise. I have less pain intensity while moving, but I'm not clear yet. 

To your point of keeping dislocates and pancake distinct in training, I'm interested in understanding the GB reasoning for loading shoulder extension with the bar while doing pancakes, as opposed to simply using a weight plate on your back, which is how I used to do them 1 yr ago. Either way, it will take me time to regain my mobility back to that point. Just curious as to why the bar bar is preferred as I want to mentally start visualizing how to approach them in GB terms.