Fatigue, soreness, lack of recovery.

I was unsure where to post this so I hope it's okay here.

For quite some time now I have been struggling with general, sometimes low sometimes high, levels of fatigue. I will wake up relatively stiff all over, especially down the length of my spine, needing to move it about for a few minutes to relieve the sensation. I feel generally quite foggy; not all the time but often enough to cause me to notice it and question it.

On top of these symptoms, I have been recovering from workouts very poorly. Even a relatively low level of activity is causing quite a large amount of soreness. It's important to note that I have been active my whole life. I'm 27 now and played competitive sports all through childhood up to my early 20s and have been strength training with weights since 16. The longest time I've had away from exercise is about 4 months of travelling and even then I was fairly active and would use gyms whenever we came across them. The point of explaining that I suppose was just to demonstrate that I'm familiar with DOMs and physical exertion in general and have a pretty good understanding of what my body can tolerate (although I do have the tendency to push too hard). However even after dropping my volume and intensity on just about every exercise and workout I am noticing that I always suffer from quite potent levels of soreness. 

Two weeks ago was my deload after which I still felt rough and tired so last week I took completely off. I did no structured training whatsoever. I limbered and walked and occasionally played with handstands and that's all. By the end of the week I felt slightly better and have come back to training even more gently doing the two day foundation split. And haven't done the stretch courses yet either. The soreness was immediately back which to be honest didn't worry me; I figured the time off meant I just needed to adjust again. However now the overall fatigue and stiffness is coming back and I'm wondering what to do. Perhaps I've just overworked for too long and now my body needs more time to recovery fully? 

I eat very healthily (at least I believe I do - it's perhaps a debatable topic), drink plenty of water and other than on rare occasions sleep solidly through the night for 7-9 hours. I work in a gym as a trainer and really my training is my passion and main focus. 

I feel like there's more that I could say/ describe but this is already obscenely long. If anyone has the patience to read it and offer their insights from experience or knowledge, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure all I need to do is take more time off, but this is something I truly don't like doing and I find it a difficult thing to do.

I apologise this is such a long post and thank you to anyone willing to sit through it and offer advice!

Max

Edit: I thought I would just add that during physical activity is when I feel the most fresh, awake, and energetic. I don't feel sluggish when training.

Edit 2: and I will also add that pretty much all elements in foundation and handstand have still been improving. So sorry for all these additions 

This is exactly why I went from a 4 day split to a 3 day split way back when.   I wonder if it's fatigue from cns stimulation, that's what I assumed bc it's not exactly DOMS.   Anyways, would like to see what kind of replies you get. 

If nutrition, sleep and stress levels are all in check (sounds like they are or at least you're aware of the importance) then this is not normal. 

My recommendation is to go see a doctor. First, make sure there isn't something serious indicated. Second, get blood work done and check testosterone and other hormone levels. You would be surprised how prevalent low testosterone is (and the reasons) even at your age. You sound like me a few years ago (but I'm older-48 now). Nutrition good. Sleep good working out but recovery was crap. Foggy head. Lethargic. Depressed (me, you didn't say that was you). Turns out I had the testosterone levels of a prepubescent girl! Got that fixed and all those symptoms went away. This isn't "juicing." This is just supplementing your body with what (for whatever reason) it stopped producing and getting back to normal. 

My 2 cents, anyway, which is probably worth what you paid me! Good luck!

Thank you so much for the replies, this is certainly something I should consider, I tend to avoid visits to my GP as the usual response is "just rest". 

Out of curiosity, is it something that you still have to supplement with or is the issue essentially "fixed"?

Max

Maksis, get the bloodwork! I don't know how it works in the UK, but it's a good investment. Even a simple lack of Vitamin D or B's can make you feel like someone run you over a truck... Been there.

3 hours ago, Jennifer Rodriguez said:

This is exactly why I went from a 4 day split to a 3 day split way back when.   I wonder if it's fatigue from cns stimulation, that's what I assumed bc it's not exactly DOMS.  

Same here. I use to get the same beat up fuzz when I overlapped too much weightlifting with the start of my duathlon seasons. It would come on earlier and earlier each year as I got older (I'm 36 now). Couple of bad weeks in my training notes is my sign that I need to ease back everything - I always took it to be a fried CNS rather than anything systemic.

2 hours ago, Maksis Riley said:

...I tend to avoid visits to my GP as the usual response is "just rest". 

Ha yeah. In my experience most GPs tend to look on anything other than recreational exercise as excessive :). Worth a try though - doesn't cost anything but time and you have a decent argument with this being integral to your work.

1 hour ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

Maksis, get the bloodwork! I don't know how it works in the UK, but it's a good investment. Even a simple lack of Vitamin D or B's can make you feel like someone run you over a truck... Been there.

Not to mention thyroid issues (speaking from experience). Unfortunately, it can be very hard to find a GP who is actually good at their job.

Maksis,

First, I'm not a doctor so make sure to make decisions with a medical professional. 

Regarding testosterone, once you "supplement" it your body will stop making it.  This is why you should only do testosterone therapy if your body truly is not producing enough.  So it's pretty much a lifetime thing once you begin the therapy.  But if your body is not making it anyway, then who cares if you have to do it the rest of your life?  It's pretty cheap so that's not a worry.  If that is the problem, then the difference in how you feel is night and day. 

Even if the testosterone is low, there may be other reasons that can be addressed.  For example, your estadriol (estrogen) levels could be too high.  Correct that and your testosterone will come up.  Other hormones (Vitamin D-- which is actually a hormone-- for example) can be supplemented as needed and if your D is really low that could lead to the symptoms you're describing.  Personally, I have to take a good bit, except in summer when I'm out in the sun a lot.  For whatever reason, my body doesn't make Vitamin D as well as others.

Everyone is different.  So for me, "fixed" means I do testosterone therapy and will be on it the rest of my life.  I also have asthma, and take daily medication to keep that in check.  "Fixed" might mean something else to someone.  It is very complicated, which is why finding a good doctor is key.  I want to reiterate, I'm not talking about "juicing" here.  I'm just talking about restoring hormones to natural levels.

Good luck!

Mark

Oh I understood that it wasn't juicing Mark, thank you for clarifying though and for explaining the rest. 

I'm really quite overwhelmed by all the input (in a positive way). Thank you all. It's very possible I just need to back off for a bit longer but by the sounds of things it is worth me trying to get some blood tests done. 

I actually already supplement with D3 and B5 as well as a few others but until I actually get some tests I'll be shooting in the dark I suppose  plus my partner is a nurse and says she knows the right things to say so as not to be brushed aside by the doctor.

Can't express enough gratitude for the support and input everyone, I feel very humbled.

Max

Hi Max,

I am very sorry to hear of your troubles  I would add my support to those saying 'go see a doctor'. What came to mind to me was shingles and the sooner you can rule out that and other nasties the better.

Best wishes,
Kate

Thanks for the support kate I'll get myself to a doctor and I'm sure be back to normal soon enough; at least I hope so 

Thanks again all 

Max

Good luck with this Max. Make sure it's a sports minded doctor, or you might get the default instruction to "rest everything".

Excellent advice above on things to test. I'd include B12, folate and zinc in the testing and if levels are not high-normal supplement or modify diet accordingly. Other supplenents to consider are organic magnesium and vitamin K2.

 I used to get weird tingling in my extremities - did some research and saw that low B12 levels could be the cause (turned out mine were low-normal which really just means too low). Doubled my levels with methylcobalamine and the problem went away. Also, my GP noticed one of my thyroid hormones was elevated and wanted to put me on permanent hormone therapy. Did research again and learnt excess iodine could be responsible so stopped seaweed supplementation and the hormone level normalised, to my doc's astonishment.

Bottom line: without blood testing you're fighting blind and own research and safe experimentation pays off

Interesting about the iodine as I supplement that too, I will remove it for a time just to see if it makes a difference. I also supplement k2, magnesium and zinc.

You are absolutely right though, I just need to get it checked and stop guessing/ speculating. I for some reason find it difficult to seek help with this. It's perhaps a pride thing of believing I should be able to "fix" myself. Or perhaps not wanting to accept there could be something wrong to begin with. It's a strange tendancy I have and I can't exactly explain it.... At least there's some awareness of it though 

Max

2 hours ago, Maksis Riley said:

Interesting about the iodine as I supplement that too, I will remove it for a time just to see if it makes a difference. I also supplement k2, magnesium and zinc.

 

You are absolutely right though, I just need to get it checked and stop guessing/ speculating. I for some reason find it difficult to seek help with this. It's perhaps a pride thing of believing I should be able to "fix" myself. Or perhaps not wanting to accept there could be something wrong to begin with. It's a strange tendancy I have and I can't exactly explain it.... At least there's some awareness of it though 

 

Max

I think that's a fairly typical male attitude that I also recognize in myself but have overcome. It partly explains why women live longer.

In addition to everything that has been said, I might add (from my own experience) that a glass of water with a pinch of sea salt and some drops of lemon juice right after waking up might do the trick. It helped me a lot. There is even a scientific explanation for that, that I can't quiet reproduce. But it is some advice supposedly Charles Poliquin gives to his students.

If you want to influence your testosterone level with the right kind of food there is a whole chapter on it in Tim Ferriss' "The 4-hour-Body" which is quiet interesting.

Greetings

Hi Maksis,

It's good to write and ask about such things. We always see the forum full of technique questions, but I bet lots of others are quiet about asking about other issues.

I would try dialling it down a bit, maybe even 50%. Cut out everything else (you didn't say whether you did other stuff too, but someone else above did). Eat and sleep well. Make sure you have some relaxation time built into your day/week.

I think finding a sympathetic GP will be key here --- and difficult! I can't even get mine to give me an extra cholesterol test without feeling like I'm hassling them. It'll be worth paying yourself for a nutritionist consultation.