is it Ok to add shoulder dislocates?

Hello,

I know that shoulder dislocates is a more advanced iM but would it be OK to add to my training? How? 1 kg bar is enough? I'm struggling with HS/PE1 iM and I think it can help.

Thanks!

they are 2 different exercises. I recommend to follow the course. dislocates will be restricted to the rom you can demonstrate now on IM1, nothing more.

Sergio, what's your issue with the HS/PE1?

Hello! 

OK, Alessandro. 

I wrote it wrong, I meant HS/PE2 iM, Eva. 

Thank you! 

For HS/PE2 iM, I don't think there's any magic trick. As coach would say "first things first." Actually, I say that too all the time, lol. The dislocates are more complex movements and I don't think they will help. If you can’t get to 90º, how could you possibly get further up with a dislocate? 

I’m inferring that you're having trouble with PE2>iM because you don't have the active ROM to lift to 90º which btw also requires strength. I've never heard Coach talk about how much strength one needs to do some of the >iMs, haha, but it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

First, I would focus on getting that 90º shoulder extension lifting to horizontal. It only takes time and practice:

Undergrip, externally rotate shoulders, retract+depress scapulae and lift dowel to shoulder height. Torso remains straight. You can start with as wide grip as you need to in order to get to 90º. Then, work gradually to decrease the width of your grip. If I said something fatal someone will correct me.

Amigo, why don't you post a form check? if we can see your main restriction or compensation, we could recommend some mobility bonuses. 

The only 'magic trick' have found for these is more time in supine shoulder extension and table stretches with a focus on actively retracting, depressing and externally rotating.

The first 4 exercises of the thoracic bridge series are a great help for HS/PE2iM.

12 hours ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

For HS/PE2 iM, I don't think there's any magic trick. As coach would say "first things first." Actually, I say that too all the time, lol. The dislocates are more complex movements and I don't think they will help. If you can’t get to 90º, how could you possibly get further up with a dislocate? 

I’m inferring that you're having trouble with PE2>iM because you don't have the active ROM to lift to 90º which btw also requires strength. I've never heard Coach talk about how much strength one needs to do some of the >iMs, haha, but it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

First, I would focus on getting that 90º shoulder extension lifting to horizontal. It only takes time and practice:

Undergrip, externally rotate shoulders, retract+depress scapulae and lift dowel to shoulder height. Torso remains straight. You can start with as wide grip as you need to in order to get to 90º. Then, work gradually to decrease the width of your grip. If I said something fatal someone will correct me.

Amigo, why don't you post a form check? if we can see your main restriction or compensation, we could recommend some mobility bonuses. 

Thank you Eva!

I forgot "ribs in part"

I also post a form check: 

Thank you!

3 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

The only 'magic trick' have found for these is more time in supine shoulder extension and table stretches with a focus on actively retracting, depressing and externally rotating.

Do you mean this exercise?

I've also added 15 table stretches in my warm up, I think I read that in one of your posts ;-)

Thank you!

Yes, I always do table rocks, then immediately down into that stretch. I find it easiest to link my fingers but your experience may vary on that one.

Watch your elbows and your shoulder mechanics. This is potent medicine and if you have tight biceps or pec minor/major it can take a while to loosen up. Consistency over intensity

I've just tried, good stretching on my biceps. In the supine shoulder extensions you have to keep the retracting, depressing and external rotating part, right?  

Thank you Jon! 

I just learnt the hard way that both shoulder dislocates (which I started for shoulder rehab) and HS/PE2>iM at my stage were "hacking at the same dent" and pretty quickly were too much (for me) so right now I'm trying to figure out how to appropriately scale back.

Same goes for table rocks and the supine extension stretch in warmup, take it very, very easy in terms of both volume and intensity - it's easy to overdo here (again, I'm speaking from experience...)

As an informative tangent, I can tell you what happens when you skip to the dislocates without spending enough time in the first 4 IMs.

I spent a couple of months mastering HS/PE5 IM (overgrip dislocates) and after getting to shoulder width + 1 hand successfully I then tried to move to HS/PE6 IM (supine grip dislocates).

Despite my best efforts I could not do an acceptable quality undergrip dislocate at ANY width, when my arms got to the 90 degree extension position they just dropped down uncontrollably. That was a sign that something was amiss, and so I regressed back to the beginning and did a lot of reading on the forums to understand what was wrong. It is actually quite simple: I was not retracting and depressing in HS/PE2 IM and so was not really working the muscles I should have been working (I also didn't spend enough time there because I was bored of headstands and was impatiently trying to get to the actual handstand practice).

So now you know what happens if you do the dislocates prematurely, I did this experiment for you so you don't need to do it yourself  

10 minutes ago, Gabor Kulcsar said:

As an informative tangent, I can tell you what happens when you skip to the dislocates without spending enough time in the first 4 IMs.

I spent a couple of months mastering HS/PE5 IM (overgrip dislocates) and after getting to shoulder width + 1 hand successfully I then tried to move to HS/PE6 IM (supine grip dislocates).

Despite my best efforts I could not do an acceptable quality undergrip dislocate at ANY width, when my arms got to the 90 degree extension position they just dropped down uncontrollably. That was a sign that something was amiss, and so I regressed back to the beginning and did a lot of reading on the forums to understand what was wrong. It is actually quite simple: I was not retracting and depressing in HS/PE2 IM and so was not really working the muscles I should have been working (I also didn't spend enough time there because I was bored of headstands and was impatiently trying to get to the actual handstand practice).

So now you know what happens if you do the dislocates prematurely, I did this experiment for you so you don't need to do it yourself  

Great post.

Bright side, it also works in reverse. Building extension strength is integrated into undergrip dislocates, and I have seen good benefits to middle split holds with a focus on these

Can't train a relatively complex movement without mastering its more basic components

I'm also working hard in be patient!  LOL. I think this is the hardest part... 

Thank you guys! 

Fantastic. I'm thrilled you got so many good replies while I was sleeping!

As you can see there's always a smart way to work on our deficits, but it rarely is jumping ahead.

As Leanhard noted, don't over do it either and enjoy every single day!