RC PE1

Hi, this is my 6th week on these, and I still can't quite figure them out. I saw on another thread someone suggest starting from the top to get the correct position, so I tried that today, and believe it or not, these are better then they have been, but they still feel so awkward, and I'm pretty sure my position at the top is still off. Any way to make these easier to start with? Or any other ways to improve these? The video below has two sets, I tried raising the rings thinking that might make them a bit easier, but I still don't quite hit that 90/90 position of the shoulders,elbows, arms. Thank you all in advance.

I've seen Coach recommendation that people practice the top position and hold it for time.  Coach recommended building up to a 60 second hold using the streps similar to FLPE1. 

I've also seen on Instagram a version with knees bent and the bottom of your feet on the floor, doing it that way keeps you from fighting your hip hinge.

Emily,

I'm still perfecting my form myself, but... you can start in the top position and lower yourself down until the upper arms are parallel to the floor while depressing the shoulder and try to get a good feel about this position, so you know if at the end of the rep you end up in this correct position, or too high. I look quickly to the side to see if my upper arms are horizontal or not and make little adjustments for the next rep.

Also, what helps me is to think that I need to pull "forward" and not "upward", if that makes sense.

Hi Emily, nice to meet you!

You have a nice solid body line and you're doing the hinge properly. The main problem is in your set up! Easy fix. Lower your rings. Hard to say how much, try around 8-10" from the ground approx. Ass clearing the grass a few inches. More details from coach Armijo in my thread:

Notice how at the top position you end up with your elbows way down near your lower ribs (not good). See how Zach Armijo's artwork sums it up. Aim for 90/90 angles above and below your humerus. Once you get that in pace, you can better focus on the scapulae retraction component. Enjoy!

Thanks guys. I forgot to try with the bent knees, I'll try that tomorrow - Eva, I did lower the rings but I still can't get that 90 angle at my elbows. And Giovanni, I'm not sure what you mean "start in the top position and lower yourself down until the upper arms are parallel to the floor while depressing the shoulder"  I was trying to start at the top, and I thought the top was with upper arms parallel to the floor. How do I start above that?

Try a week of finding the proper 90s in the top position and holding it for a timed set. 

Your pulling your shoulders too high, which is causing all the joints we want at 90 to be more closed.  I think holding the right position will help you find it and forget the bad position your practicing now.  Don't practice the wrong position.

Good advice from Ryan above. I'm still struggling with this one (my set up at home is less than ideal), but I find what helps me achieve the 90/90/90 is to think of pulling my hands away from my shoulders in the top position.

It's moving in the right direction, but in your last video you have lowered your rings too much.

You have to find that ONE spot that will allow you to keep your elbows at 90° with humerus parallel to the floor.

Take your time to experiment with your ring height until you find it (with mirror or filming yourself). Or else you'll be spinning your wheels. Once you find the appropriate height for you, I recommend you find a way to "bookmark" that spot for future sessions. I use my body as a reference, e.g., bottom of ring at navel or whatever. I hope this helps.

OK, thanks for all your help. I think I've got the rings right, and am working on sets of time now. Should I try to get to 5 whole sets of 60 seconds, like some of the other progressions before moving on to trying the actual rows? Talk about humbling! At least I'll have some open lats  I've read in other GB forum posts that grip position is a matter of preference here, so I'm assuming I can keep my hands the way they are or play with them neutral, but that it doesn't really matter too much. If this looks good maybe I'll be back in a year with another row attempt!

Emily, 

Rings look good. Maybe they could be a tad higher. First you have to get in the top position with the right form. This particular element challenges a lot of the shoulder stabilizers muscles. You need to depress your scapulae with your lats and lower traps primarily, in addition to the retraction component. Then you can worry about holding he top position for X second and later build time. There's no point in holding a position for any amount of time, if the proper muscles activation pattern is not there. Makes sense?

Huge step in the right direction!!  How long can you hold that?

The last thing I would recommend checking a side view to make sure your hips are under the ring support. 

If that ring height is too tuff raise them a few inches.  Now that your shoulders and elbows are more open your but is just barely off the ground which is what you want in the end but it is going to be the hardest version. 

I know right 5 sets of 60 can't say I've tried it but that was what coach recommended on a thread with a evil smiley too boot. 

I agree with Eva. The muscle activation is really important here. Coach suggested a seated version if the  correct shoulder position in the static hold is too hard. You can either lower the rings so you're in the same position, but sitting on the ground, or stack some books under your butt. This adds some assistance so you can practice the scapular position under less stress. 

This is exactly what I needed to make progress here, as I really struggle with the depression/retraction combo. 

Good point Eva and Ian, I had this feeling that Emily was doing too much of the work with her chest and arms rather than back but didn't know how to explain it.

Emily do you see how your shoulders are up and your neck is disappearing.  Experiment with ways of lessening the load and getting your back working as Eva described.

OK, I've been messing around, and I *think*?? I've got the static hold form correctly for a brief amount of time. haha. Trying to keep my shoulders pulled down and my neck as relaxed as I can get it... Thank you all for your feedback, I feel so lost on this and so it's very helpful and reassuring.
 

Your heading in the right direction Emily.  Keep practicing and improving that position.  Do a check from the side as well to work on a nice straight line through your back and that you are set up directly under the rings.

I'd just like to add, Emily, don't worry if it feels like progress is slow on these... This is a tough element for a lot of people (myself included!). It's a very foreign-feeling movement that takes time. It took me 20 months to master this one, which I probably could have done faster if I had asked for more help, so you're doing the right thing!

All the suggestions above are great.... get your form down first and then worry about volume later.

At some point things will click, and you'll go "ahhhh THAT'S what it's supposed to feel like!"

Keep it up!

Cam

Emily, thanks for asking the question.  I had the exact same one.  

Emily, I'm no expert at all. I'm working on the same element too .

I noticed one thing, on the top position your hands are facing forward, but if you look at the demonstration video the athlete starts with hands facing forward and then rotates the hands finishing in the top position with hands facing each other.

I was doing the exercise the same as you do and correcting hands position helped me to feel better. I hope this could help.

14 hours ago, Cameron Williams said:

At some point things will click, and you'll go "ahhhh THAT'S what it's supposed to feel like!"

Sometimes it's just little details that help improve form drastically. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I noticed I wasn't pointing my toes enough. Fixed that, and my lower body all of a sudden got much more stable. Also, both my form and endurance have improved quite a bit since I started doing half of both sets and reps on non-RC training days.,

I usually teach people to do the hinge row with the buttocks on the floor to get use to the movement. This can be done for many repetitions to train the movement pattern. Then progress to lifting a little so the buttocks is lightly touching the floor. Then the next step is buttocks off the floor. It helps when you have someone that can touch the hips and arms to gently push them where they need to go.

ok, i've been doing these with my butt on the ground, and think i've reached "mastery" at that level - do these look better, shoulders down, elbows at 90, hands facing each other at the top? next week i'm hoping to try them butt off the ground again. thanks everyone.

they are good, probably would need to elevate a bit the rings on the elevated-butt version.