Elevated Butterfly: Heels, Hips

Hello, Another quick question: (here is my current tight form with Butterfly):

By elevating the hips with Butterfly, I notice:

1) the heels are directly under the groin,

2) hips widen more without having to press on the knees and,

3) the outer hip muscles turn on easier (with more force) to relax the groin for a better stretch.

That is what we are looking for until we can lean forward with heels close to groin on the floor eventually correct?

Thanks for the feedback as I've been honing in on the details and feeling new areas of stretch in different positions.

You can perform this variation because you are adding a compensation. 

during the seated version high knees is a compensation, heels forward is a compensation. over the months you will see that the compensations tend to be less. when compensation are close to zero you can add the forward bending. Compensation in this phase are typical of tight anterior capsule (you can fix it with the swivel hips), later capsule (you can fix it with  tons of frog and piriformis variation (especially the second). the bad side is that in order to improve the butterfly you need months...now I can almost touch the floor with the shinbone after more then one year. the problem is concerned with capsule that is extremely sensible and usually tight.

I find that relaxing the face and jaw translates to the performed stretch allowing more depth, less tension and less chance of injury.

Alessandro is right about compensations.

In this stretch it is more important to first address getting your spine upright, without any forward lean, and learning how to anteriorly tilt your pelvis. This stretch is opening the inner aspect of the hip and stretching the short adductors (those that do not cross the knee), adductor brevis, longus and magnus & pectineus. As you tilt the pelvis forward the insertions of these muscles on the pubic rami move down and back away from the legs increasing the stretch.

Only sit up on as many blocks as is necessary to achieve APT and an upright spine. Do not focus on leaning forward until you can achieve this without blocks. Rather than lean forward you can hold your feet with your hands and lift your chest upright to help achieve APT and this will dramatically increase the stretch with hardly much movement but getting into the correct position.

thank you for sharing very helpful post 

4 hours ago, Wesley Tan said:

Alessandro is right about compensations.

In this stretch it is more important to first address getting your spine upright, without any forward lean, and learning how to anteriorly tilt your pelvis. This stretch is opening the inner aspect of the hip and stretching the short adductors (those that do not cross the knee), adductor brevis, longus and magnus & pectineus. As you tilt the pelvis forward the insertions of these muscles on the pubic rami move down and back away from the legs increasing the stretch.

Only sit up on as many blocks as is necessary to achieve APT and an upright spine. Do not focus on leaning forward until you can achieve this without blocks. Rather than lean forward you can hold your feet with your hands and lift your chest upright to help achieve APT and this will dramatically increase the stretch with hardly much movement but getting into the correct position.

so Wesley you say achieve your open butterfly 1st then try for the lean forward ?  

Oussama, If one is able to sit comfortably in the butterfly stretch on the ground with the spine upright, then it would be okay to begin leaning forward. I believe having the mobility to do this will go hand in hand with having a fairly open hip/knee position. Those who have their knees high sitting on the floor will simply be unable to sit up straight without blocks 

Yes, Wes is right about getting upright first and foremost.

Grabbing the feet is also very useful as away to get some leverage to work on the APT needed to do this, if the feet are too far away than you can use a stretch belt just as you would for pike work.

The key thing is to rotate from the hip rather than from spinal flexion. Again just like in pike work. 

The groins really respond to long holds and focused relaxing, so deep calm breaths with a sense of pulling the lower belly up on the inhales and releasing the knees down on the exhales. Some reasonably heavy weights on the knees can help with this, but should only be sued if you are able to sit completely upright.

11 hours ago, Wesley Tan said:

Oussama, If one is able to sit comfortably in the butterfly stretch on the ground with the spine upright, then it would be okay to begin leaning forward. I believe having the mobility to do this will go hand in hand with having a fairly open hip/knee position. Those who have their knees high sitting on the floor will simply be unable to sit up straight without blocks 

thanks a lot

Weights on knees has been a massive help for me. I still have appalling range in this position but with a yoga block and some weights, followed by a focus on rolling my pelvis through, I now get a really pleasant stretch.

I also like to add a contraction by bracing my knees with my forearms or hands and pushing against them. Followed by placing my hands under my knees and contracting the opposite way.

Max

On April 16, 2016 at 6:23 AM, Maksis Riley said:

Weights on knees has been a massive help for me. I still have appalling range in this position but with a yoga block and some weights, followed by a focus on rolling my pelvis through, I now get a really pleasant stretch.

 

I also like to add a contraction by bracing my knees with my forearms or hands and pushing against them. Followed by placing my hands under my knees and contracting the opposite way.

 

Max

I do something very similar! When my 185lb boyfriend is around, I have him stand on my legs (which is 100% comfortable for me; I know for some it would not be!) and then I try to contract against his weight for several seconds. Feels great. 

I should add in the opposite contraction, as you described.

In martial arts training we used to pair up with one guy standing on another one's knees. What I do know is press my knees down with my elbows.

4 hours ago, Julia Quigley said:

I do something very similar! When my 185lb boyfriend is around, I have him stand on my legs (which is 100% comfortable for me; I know for some it would not be!) and then I try to contract against his weight for several seconds. Feels great. 

I should add in the opposite contraction, as you described.

3 hours ago, Petri Widsten said:

In martial arts training we used to pair up with one guy standing on another one's knees. What I do know is press my knees down with my elbows.

our coach was pushing with his hands (he was very strong) for me i prefer hands rather than feets on my knees 

1 minute ago, Oussama KHELLADI said:

our coach was pushing with his hands (he was very strong) for me i prefer hands rather than feets on my knees 

In circus training/acrobatic partner balancing, you get over that pretty quickly

To each their own! Many ways to skin a cat. 

1 minute ago, Julia Quigley said:

In circus training/acrobatic partner balancing, you get over that pretty quickly

To each their own! Many ways to skin a cat. 

for sur now am focusing on assistance free stretching 

On 5/23/2016 at 0:46 PM, Ryan Bailey said:

LOL