Deck squats

So this is my second post about Deck Squats. I must say that I'm not having any luck and in fact I'm feeling rather discouraged. All the other exercises so far I've managed to do at some leave. Some are easier than others, but the deck squat is turning out to be impossible. 

Some of you suggested doing them on a hill, but here in Montreal Canada there's still snow outside, so it's going to be a few weeks for that to become a reality. I've tried using a mattress and it hasn't helped AT ALL. I still can't do a single one. When I try and bring myself up, my body's just not at the right angle. What can I do? 

I'm worried that as I improve my strength elsewhere, my deck squat is going to keep holding me back. 

So once again here I am to see if any one has any other suggestions for me. I believe I'm going to be told I can't move up levels until I get this down, but I'm starting to feel it's not going to happen, and as a result I'm feeling like I want to quit out of frustration and try another program (not saying I'm going to do that just saying I'm feeling really discouraged right now.)

If anyone thinks they have a solution please let me know. Thanks!!!

Perform scaled deck squats off a mat or other stable, elevated surface.

Do not do your deck squats on a hill.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

No need to be discouraged; the progressions that stump us the most are the ones that we are getting the most value out of the course with. These little gems are the reason to stick with the course, not leave. You're doing the right thing by attacking your weaknesses, it will bring the most significant development to your body, and mind I might add.

In terms of your deck squats, I see only two difficulties; either a problem of mobility or not understanding how to roll (quite rare to be actually too weak in the legs to stand up, although it is possible). Can you post a video so we can see what is happening?

If a mattress isn't high enough to allow execution then simply start higher. The other thing to consider is a mattress is soft and will make rolling quite tricky. Plus you will sink into it meaning you haven't actually elevated yourself as much as you think.

Your best bet at this point is definitely post a video.

Max

I agree with Max, post a video, so the community can give you a more specific answer.

Meanwhile, I can share what has held me back with this exercise and helped me progress. I have long legs and arms and I am very stiff. When I first tried the decksquat I had to do them with a lot of momentum, which resulted in having backpain in the lumbar spine, probably because my lumbar spine was the most flexible area in my posterior chain and also unprepared for handling such forces. After reading the forums I came to the conclusion that the factors holding me back were poor ankle mobility and poor flexibility of glutes. I started doing the deck squats slowly from an elevated surface. Every time when I sat down I tried to fold my body so that the glutes get a stretch - keeping the lumbar spine straight, chest to knees, butt back. In order to not fall down when the angle of the hamstrings to calves got smaller than 90 degrees, I needed to strongly activate muscles for ankle dorsiflexion. Further down it required strong activation of hip-flexors and lower abs (feels just like pulling knees to the chest in MN/PE1). This way I could sit down slowly first on 3 matts, then 2, then 1 and now I do them with feet on top of the matt. When coming back up I try to roll controlled with minimum momentum, keeping the hollow hold and pulling ankles to glutes at the correct time to stand up. With ankle mobility the SLS/PE1-iM and the FS stretches have helped a lot.

I hope this helps.

Priit

I've tried to perform them off a matt (which I don't have so I use a large cushion from my couch and that didn't help in the slightest) I will try and record myself asap to get more help. Thanks

ive heard holding a light weight and reaching it forward when trying to come back up can help somewhat to start with if you really cant find an elevated surface.  also maybe try more momentum  by throwing yours arms forward when you come back up

I bet a cushion on a couch is soft enough that you're not actually that far off the ground, like Maksis said about the mattress.

If you go to a gym, maybe you could try doing them on a treadmill (that is turned off!)? 

Or maybe you could stack a few of those jazzercise steppers and put a yoga mat on top? The nice thing with this is you can stack them until you get to a height that allows you to perform it. 

The mattress and cushion would rob all your momentum too. 

Its unnerving to post a video at first but its absolutely the best way to get some tips tailored to your situation.  Next thing you know your wife will be mad at you for taking your shirt off at the gym so you can get a better video.

1 minute ago, Ryan Reynolds said:

 Next thing you know your wife will be mad at you for taking your shirt off at the gym so you can get a better video.

Speaking from experience? 

That exact conversation happened at my house last night when my wife was looking for a picture from our ski tip and stumbled upon a video I made of my Scapula pushups. I also had to balance my phone on top of the door to the squash court I work out in to get the right view.

On April 14, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Matthew Lipscomb said:

I've tried to perform them off a matt (which I don't have so I use a large cushion from my couch and that didn't help in the slightest) I will try and record myself asap to get more help. Thanks

Yeah, most couch cushions are going to be way too soft and thus will kill any momentum built from the roll and likely collapse thus not giving much help in terms of depth; so I'm not surprised this wasn't any easier. 

Do you have any access to a solid/fairly solid elevated flat surface (landing/single step in a house, curb on a side walk, Reebok step, couple of fairly big boxes that you could fill with books to make them solid, etc...)?

Also, are you currently doing the Front Split Stretch Course? If not and you can afford to purchase it I would highly recommend that you do so as that should greatly increase your rate of progress from a mobility standpoint.

1 hour ago, Keegan Yentsch said:

Do you have any access to a solid/fairly solid elevated flat surface (landing/single step in a house, curb on a side walk, Reebok step, couple of fairly big boxes that you could fill with books to make them solid, etc...)?

Also, are you currently doing the Front Split Stretch Course? If not and you can afford to purchase it I would highly recommend that you do so as that should greatly increase your rate of progress from a mobility standpoint.

Great idea. Actually, it just so happens that I have like a mini step from my kitchen to my living room, maybe 4 inches high or something. I'll give this a try tonight. Much appreciated!

I used a weight to help propel me up then went back through the template without the weight maybe ten pounds it was just a gallon zip lock full of sand hope this helps

I too had trouble standing back up for the first 6 months, so I used my hands (formed into fists, so I was actually using my knuckles) to help myself back up. After 6 months, I started being able to get up sometimes without using my hands, but I would stagger backwards 1 to several steps each time. Then I progressed to doing them on a 3/4" mat, which reduced the staggering. Now, another 3 months later, I don't need to do them on an elevated surface anymore and don't need to use my hands anymore, but most of the time I still stagger one step back. I find that with my lack of flexibility for this movement, when getting up, I need to spread my knees apart (more than what is shown in the video) and really reach out forward with my arms and drive my arms forward between my knees. Driving my arms forward is probably equivalent to holding a small weight.

Good luck! I admit that I took several months off (twice!) from F1 partly because I was frustrated with the deck squats. Keep at it and you will improve!

On 4/19/2016 at 2:47 AM, Dora Choi said:

I too had trouble standing back up for the first 6 months, so I used my hands (formed into fists, so I was actually using my knuckles) to help myself back up. After 6 months, I started being able to get up sometimes without using my hands, but I would stagger backwards 1 to several steps each time. Then I progressed to doing them on a 3/4" mat, which reduced the staggering. Now, another 3 months later, I don't need to do them on an elevated surface anymore and don't need to use my hands anymore, but most of the time I still stagger one step back. I find that with my lack of flexibility for this movement, when getting up, I need to spread my knees apart (more than what is shown in the video) and really reach out forward with my arms and drive my arms forward between my knees. Driving my arms forward is probably equivalent to holding a small weight.

Good luck! I admit that I took several months off (twice!) from F1 partly because I was frustrated with the deck squats. Keep at it and you will improve!

Interesting story. So just curious, as you work on that 1 exercise for 6 months or longer by the sounds of it, did you get to move forward to another level, or does this hold you back on f1 forever or until you get the deck sqats? 

My fear is that I actually have a long-term problem with both my right knee, ankle and foot! Each one has suffered a serious injury at some point in my life and I'm beginning to think the problem isn't just flexibility. So I'm wondering if I can't do the deck squat because of injury, does that mean I can't move forward?

Matthew, you should probably share with the coaches what kind of injuries you've had in the past and post a form check (sooner rather than later) just to see where you are!

To your question, normally you stay with each paired element (PE >iM), in this case Deck Squat/Skiers, until you can perform them properly. Make no mistake, staying in deck squats won't "hold you back." On the contrary, it will move you forward because you will be addressing your mobility shortcomings that otherwise would later impede your progress, or worse, cause injury. So you have to think that by staying in deck squats – for as long as it takes – is actually killing more than one bird at once, and in effect, making progress! You're welcome. 

30 minutes ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

Matthew, you should probably share with the coaches what kind of injuries you've had in the past and post a form check (sooner rather than later) just to see where you are!

To your question, normally you stay with each paired element (PE >iM), in this case Deck Squat/Skiers, until you can perform them properly. Make no mistake, staying in deck squats won't "hold you back." On the contrary, it will move you forward because you will be addressing your mobility shortcomings that otherwise would later impede your progress, or worse, cause injury. So you have to think that by staying in deck squats – for as long as it takes – is actually killing more than one bird at once, and in effect, making progress! You're welcome. 

Exactly what Eva said! Skipping an element would hold you back, not staying with an element and working through it. The the "mid" position of a deck squat is basically the bottom position of a pistol squat, but with two legs on the ground instead of one. If you don't have the mobility to roll into and stand up from that position with both legs (which is much more stable than one leg), but move on anyway, you'll get stuck later in the course anyway. 

Knowing this, it's especially important to share your injuries, do a form check, and learn what you need to do to recover from/accommodate your injuries now so it doesn't hold you up further down the line. 

More Shia LaBeouf  So good. 

First of all, Deck Squats aren't holding you back from getting to another level, they're only holding you back from moving forward on the SLS progressions. Most people here are on different levels for each exercise, and that's totally fine. Just saying since it kinda sound like you're not sure you can move forward at all without getting these down.

Other than that, I understand that it can be really discouraging (believe me), but a much better (less discouraging) way to look at it is that the fact you're finding that you can't do this right now is actually a GOOD THING. It's GREAT that you're figuring this out because it means you have found a weak point (that you very easily could've gone your entire life never noticing). Now that you know what's up, you can focus on this exercise specifically, find a workable solution, and work at it until you MASTER it.

You'll get there eventually. What helped me personally was putting most of my focus on the Skiers mobility element for these. Chances are it's lack of flexibility/mobility in your calves, and the Skiers will definitely help stretch them out. Specifically, I would do the Deck Squats and the Skiers with dumbbells in each hand (to act as a counter-weight) so I wouldn't lose my balance and could actually get down all the way. I would do extra mobility sets and even throw a few of them into my off days. As a result, my Deck Squats improved IMMEDIATELY (as in I could actually do them at all) and within about a week or two I could start doing them without dumbbells.

11 hours ago, Matthew Lipscomb said:

Interesting story. So just curious, as you work on that 1 exercise for 6 months or longer by the sounds of it, did you get to move forward to another level, or does this hold you back on f1 forever or until you get the deck sqats? 

My fear is that I actually have a long-term problem with both my right knee, ankle and foot! Each one has suffered a serious injury at some point in my life and I'm beginning to think the problem isn't just flexibility. So I'm wondering if I can't do the deck squat because of injury, does that mean I can't move forward?

Matthew, I stayed at that level and am still at that level.

16 hours ago, Matthew Lipscomb said:

Interesting story. So just curious, as you work on that 1 exercise for 6 months or longer by the sounds of it, did you get to move forward to another level, or does this hold you back on f1 forever or until you get the deck sqats? 

My fear is that I actually have a long-term problem with both my right knee, ankle and foot! Each one has suffered a serious injury at some point in my life and I'm beginning to think the problem isn't just flexibility. So I'm wondering if I can't do the deck squat because of injury, does that mean I can't move forward?

Depends.  What was the injury and what was the resulting prognosis?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

On 4/19/2016 at 2:47 AM, Dora Choi said:

I too had trouble standing back up for the first 6 months, so I used my hands (formed into fists, so I was actually using my knuckles) to help myself back up. After 6 months, I started being able to get up sometimes without using my hands, but I would stagger backwards 1 to several steps each time. Then I progressed to doing them on a 3/4" mat, which reduced the staggering. Now, another 3 months later, I don't need to do them on an elevated surface anymore and don't need to use my hands anymore, but most of the time I still stagger one step back. I find that with my lack of flexibility for this movement, when getting up, I need to spread my knees apart (more than what is shown in the video) and really reach out forward with my arms and drive my arms forward between my knees. Driving my arms forward is probably equivalent to holding a small weight.

Good luck! I admit that I took several months off (twice!) from F1 partly because I was frustrated with the deck squats. Keep at it and you will improve!

Interesting story. So just curious, as you work on that 1 exercise for 6 months or longer by the sounds of it, did you get to move forward to another level, or does this hold you back on f1 forever or until you get the deck sqats? 

My fear is that I actually have a long-term problem with both my right knee, ankle and foot! Each one has suffered a serious injury at some point in my life and I'm beginning to think the problem isn't just flexibility. So I'm wondering if I can't do the deck squat because of injury, does that mean I can't move forward?

(I don't understand where I'm supposed to answer your question. I clicked on Quote, but it doesn't quote you (Sommer) it quotes the guy before and makes me write in the same box as his text?)

Anyway...

All my injuries happened when I was young; I broke my right ankle when I was 8, I got my skies caught in a tree root and fell hanging on my twisted keen for minutes until a friend helped me up, and about 10 years ago a horse stomped on my foot which still hurts today every time it rains. So my right leg has all kinds of problems. Aside from my broken ankle, I never went to see a doctor. But recently I've been trying to understand my problem and I've realized my right leg doesn't have the same alignment as my left one. I can see and feel the difference when I do squat or just bend my legs gently and with awareness. My right foot must point outwards more than my left one when I do a squat, and my right knee is sensitive and I often feel a sharp pain on the left side of the kneecap which consistently gets injured if I try and run. I feel a weirdness in my right leg that starts in my ankle and goes all the way up to my thighs. I've made the whole thing worse recently because as I couldn't even do one deck squat I went and started stretching my ankles hoping it would help, only to find that my right ankle hurts all the time now. 

 Furthermore, I think whatever this problem is has changed my posture and causes my entire body to compensate creating a systemic unbalancing that runs all the way up to my back and neck. 

That being said I am in otherwise very good health. 

On 4/21/2016 at 0:24 AM, Coach Sommer said:

Depends.  What was the injury and what was the resulting prognosis?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

All my injuries happened when I was young; I broke my right ankle when I was 8, I got my skies caught in a tree root and fell hanging on my twisted keen for minutes until a friend helped me up, and about 10 years ago a horse stomped on my foot which still hurts today every time it rains. So my right leg has all kinds of problems. Aside from my broken ankle, I never went to see a doctor. But recently I've been trying to understand my problem and I've realized my right leg doesn't have the same alignment as my left one. I can see and feel the difference when I do squat or just bend my legs gently and with awareness. My right foot must point outwards more than my left one when I do a squat, and my right knee is sensitive and I often feel a sharp pain on the left side of the kneecap which consistently gets injured if I try and run. I feel a weirdness in my right leg that starts in my ankle and goes all the way up to my thighs. I've made the whole thing worse recently because as I couldn't even do one deck squat I went and started stretching my ankles hoping it would help, only to find that my right ankle hurts all the time now. 

 Furthermore, I think whatever this problem is has changed my posture and causes my entire body to compensate creating a systemic unbalancing that runs all the way up to my back and neck. 

That being said I am in otherwise very good health. 

I should add I'm seeing a knee doctor next week to try and investigate the problem more fully. 

Let's get the medical evaluation first and then begin from there.

Note to self:  In the future when torn to shreds by life, get checked out afterwards by a medical professional.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer