Slight Caloric Surplus and Mood Swings

Hey guys,

First of all thanks for the great responses at the moment in the nutrition forum. I have been following it since I joined GB two years ago, and I enjoy the focus of the discussions since Jeff is moderating.

My question relates to being in a caloric surplus and having mood swings.

I have been in a slight caloric surplus for the last few weeks, tracking my intake via meal portions. I eat 6 meals on workout days and 5 meals on rest days. One meal constitutes animal protein the size of my palm, carbs (mainly rice, potatoes, rice noodles) the size of my fist and some fat. Per day I have 6 tablespoons of fat (mainly olive oil, coconut oil, sometimes grapeseedoil), which I spread according to taste.  I don't count vegetables into carbs, but eat a variety of them everyday. I also take Vitamin D, fish oil and zinc and aim for 9 hours of sleep per night. I would say that I successfully follow that 80-90% of the time, with some treats like pizza etc from time to time. 

On average I eat 3 times per day (several meals per sitting). I cook at home most of the time, use a variety of fresh foods, drink a lot of water and progress in my foundation work has been great. I have been busting through several plateaus recently with my pushing and pulling work, my mobility is improving greatly and my body composition has been improving noticeably. In that sense the amount of food I am eating at the moment fuels my workouts perfectly.

While my training is going according to plan I noticed that I do not feel as present and alert mentally as I used to before my "lean bulking" phase. My stomach is often too full in the evenings which negatively affects my quality of sleep, and I feel like my mood is fluctuating more than it normally does. 

Before my caloric surplus phase, I actually ate at a very slight calorie deficit for 12 weeks, during which I went from 92.67kg to 90.9kg, my Chest circumference from 109.83 to 111.7cm, my arms from 36cm to 37cm, and my navel circumference from 93.4 to 92.6cm . By the end of the 12 week period I was eating 5 meals on training days and 3 meals on rest days, and 6 tablespoons of fat per day. Now the reason why I tell you this is thinking back i felt much more present and my mood much more even during my cutting phase. While towards the end it was of course time to increase calories again, I generally felt great during my cut, my stomach did not feel stuffed and I fell asleep easily. 

I am wondering how my mental energy can be negatively affected by increasing calories, even though my physical performance is great. The solutions I so far thought of were: Somehow improve gastric emptying so that I don't feel full when I go to sleep (Maybe find more calorie dense foods), increase fat intake and decrease carb intake (to decrease the volume of food in my stomach), or simply eat at maintenance for a while with less meals. 

I know this is a lot of information but i was wondering if you ever experienced similar challenges while being in a caloric surplus. I also want to highlight that I am not gaining much fat, the amount of food seems to be about right, yet I feel stuffed and unenergetic mentally.

Thanks in advance for any help

Best

Felix

PS: I just started thrive to polish up my basics and am on step 2.

Felix, 

good to have ya'

What formula do you use to to measure daily caloric need? What activity multiplier do you use? 

If you take a step back and look at your above post. Drop all the big words and lose all the advanced concepts I think it would be easy to make the assessment; just eat a little less. But, I know you are looking for the "why" and that is why you are digging deeper and deeper. However, its more important to go the other way and make sure all of your foundational information is correct. What if you are using an online calorie calculator that isn't university researched and time tested. How can you use that as a foundation of appraise calories? What resources are you using to measure foods? Im not trying to shoot holes in your program all Im asking is 'do we really know what we know?' and 'can you really control it at the level you want to without monthly blood draw, direct calomiter, DXEA and so on'. You are using very but instruments to measure a very finite thing.

I like the effort, focus and disciple that you apply to all of this. That is the real key to nutrition. 

The reality of calorie counting is if you want to do it - it takes a ton of effort and the result is not commiserate. Most athletic guys can get to sub 10% on Thrive style of eating. If you want to get to 7%, a 3% increase you will have to work 3 times more. As you get closer to 5% it gets expediently harder. The effort put in only provides tiny amounts of pay off. 

Lets focus on getting you to 10% and below. Then tackle these problems. The question you are asking is "how do I get my Ferrari to 800hp' and I am basically responding with 'do you have a Ferrari for starters and if you don't lets get you one first' 

3 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

 Most athletic guys can get to sub 10% on Thrive style of eating. If you want to get to 7%, a 3% increase you will have to work 3 times more. As you get closer to 5% it gets expediently harder. The effort put in only provides tiny amounts of pay off. 

Sidebar: Have you seen the same results with female athletes? It's not that I think men and women require drastically different diets, but in my anecdotal (read: limited) experience, men seem to drop fat easier than women do. Have you observed that too, or is just bunk? (Note: I know that 10% bodyfat on a woman is drastically different than it is on a man. So maybe, would you say a woman could get to 15%ish with just Thrive?). 

10% as a female is much tougher. I would say that 8-10% in a male is 14-16% in a female as you pointed out. For women to go below that number creates a host of 'women' issues in most cases. 

It is possible for a woman to get to 15% with the right training on Thrive. Some women may have to go to the level 2 standards as not everyone has the same body composition capabilities and if you are currently far above the 15% the more likely it is you will need to go to the next level to achieve this goal. But, ladies - 15% on a woman is no joke when you are doing it on Thrive and good training as oppose to the Kate Moss style - do enough coke to keep yourself skinny. 

Hi Jeff, thanks for the elaborate answer. When I look at my post the answer seems to be to just eat a little less for a while, which would be around maintenance. I might simply be eating too much at the moment.

To answer your question on what tools I use to keep track of my calorie intake - I don’t actually count calories. I keep track of how many portions I eat per day and have a rough idea of how much protein, carbs and fat one portion constitutes. I used to count calories for a few weeks, but did not find it sustainable. I realize that meal counting is inherently inaccurate, but my only goal with it is to make sure that I don’t drastically over or under eat. I try to minimize my calorie fluctuations by having a rough idea of how much I eat per day if you know what I mean.

I’m looking forward to work through thrive and see what the next steps bring. I have improved my body composition in the last couple of months through meal counting, keeping track of measurements and bodyweight, but am definitely not below 10% bodyfat. It will be interesting to see how incorporating the Thrive steps will impact my bodycomposition.

Thanks again for the long answer

Felix

On 4/9/2016 at 9:36 AM, Jeff Serven said:

10% as a female is much tougher. I would say that 8-10% in a male is 14-16% in a female as you pointed out. For women to go below that number creates a host of 'women' issues in most cases. 

It is possible for a woman to get to 15% with the right training on Thrive. Some women may have to go to the level 2 standards as not everyone has the same body composition capabilities and if you are currently far above the 15% the more likely it is you will need to go to the next level to achieve this goal. But, ladies - 15% on a woman is no joke when you are doing it on Thrive and good training as oppose to the Kate Moss style - do enough coke to keep yourself skinny. 

Good info! Thanks, Jeff. I'm at about 25% right now, would love to get down to 20%, and eventually, somewhere in the teens. I'll keep on with Thrive and skip the Kate Moss approach (at least, for now)  

Felix, Sounds good. Ive tried to narrow down a calorie range in Thrive that you will see later on. Hopefully this helps you to get to the bottom of "how much"

Julia - haha

Awesome thanks !