Intermittent fasting

Hello everyone!

I have just bought the course and deciding if it is for me or not... step one was perfect as I think I did't get enough water and mostly drank cold tea and other no calorie drinks.

But I'm having trouble with Step two as it's been about 6 months that I don't eat breakfast. I fast every working day (Monday to Friday, excluding weekends) from 16 to 23 hours, so I skip breakfast and lunch most days. This has been the most simple way for me to create a calory deficit and lose weight (I've lost about 18 kgs during these months, and I till want to lose the last 7-10 Kgs, the most difficult ones).

At this moment of my life, adding a meal would only complicate things, going against the whole philosopy of the course of keeping things simple at the begining and don't add any complication until you mastered simplicity, so I really don't know what to do. Shoud I add the good fats in my first meal of the day (being dinner that meal most days)?In that case, I'm already doing it as I put olive oil on my salad, get a bunch of nuts, eggs, avocado, etc, I already dinner this things (but maybe not everyday so my task would be to make sure I do it everyday).

Or should I introduce a daily breakfast for the first time in months? I'm afraid this can slow down my results because I would be actually adding calories to my daily routine, if keeping dinner the same... My plan for maintenance was to reduce fasts to one or two 24-hour fasts a week, and clean eating the rest of the days with Sundays off. Is this compatible with Thrive lifestile?

Thank you for reading.

I was on IF for a long time too before Thrive, but only skipping breakfast, never lunch. So I kinda feel you, but to answer adding fat to your first meal vs implementing breakfasts for the time in a long time, well, incorporate the breakfast! I can't really reveal too much about the course obviously, but I found Thrive style breakfasts allowed me to keep some of IF's benefits while still eating. People on IF often report more mental clarity, not having a crash halfway through morning, etc. Well, I still have the same things with Thrive, with the benefit of better overall performance. IF IS convenient and isn't harmful, but it isn't optimal. Thrive is going to remove some of IF's simplicity (not cooking is pretty simple), but just do it. Do it slowly if you have to. That's why we have steps, that's why we can (and must) leave them unchecked if we didn't do them. 

As for your worries about calorie deficit, you'll have to make it work (remember the deficit musn't be too drastic anyway, whatever the diet), but by step 13 you'll learn about the concept 'Daily Meal Flow', and again, without revealing too much, it's about timing some nutrients to promote optimal fat loss while optimally maintaining muscle, something that IF doesn't do to the same extent. Do note most step until then is incorporating said Daily Meal Flow progressively, fats in the morning being the first step.

I feel I'm starting to ramble, so basically, you can do what you want as long as you follow your steps. Right now, eat fats at breakfast, keep a deficit if you want, fast all Sunday if you want as have no required compliance on this day, you can even keep doing IF on some days, but just don't mark your task as successful. You'll move slowly but if you need it, well you need it! But trust me, do move from IF, you won't regret it in the long run. Check this thread out if you haven't already.

Hope this helps, sorry for rambling, it's late and I should be studying. 

Gah! Do yourself a favor and stop worrying about the calories. Have you been keeping track of body fat percentage? I can almost guarantee you have lost a lot a muscle. Here is an example of someone in a similar position as you: 

There is no way to get enough calories in one meal a day. If you do get enough, a ton of that is going to become fat. Focusing on just calories distracts people from what's really important.

If the philosophy of the course was what you say, the first and only step would be, "just do what you've always done." Yes it is as simple as possible, but there are some changes that need to be made. Sometimes simple is hard. If you are going to follow Thrive, then follow it completely.

Aguasanta Moran congratulations you are Suspect 009. You hold the Gymnastics Bodies record for achieving this title in 1 post. Previously besting Cam. However he remains the most frequent offender. 

With all due respect this puts you somewhere in-between larva and pond scum. 

Im just joking. I find the only value in IF is for people who need to lose 50lbs or more of fat and they don't care about how much muscle or performance they lose. Its a really well marketed term but I can tell you what works far better. Eat 500 calories a day and jog for 1 hour every day. Nothing looses weight faster than that. 

Great job on the fat loss thus far but we will get you dialed in to "optimal". Lose fat and not lose muscle. 

Thank you all for your replies! I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just trying to figure out how I can adapt thrive to my lifestyle. In the end, I have decided to add a meal in early afternoon, a kind of brunch, making sure it meets the requirements of step two. By doing this, I can still follow Thrive without adding to much complication to my current lifestyle. So today, my first meal of the day was a salad with smoked salmon and olive oil, followed by a greek yogourt (10% fat, it's the first time I eat a yogourt with all that fat and it tastes delicious) sweetend with a little bit of stevia and with some oatmeal, and an orange:

When the plan calls for both breakfast and lunch, I will have both, in the meanwhile I'll keep going like this. It's a step ahead from IF, and I want to progress slowly but firmly.

I'm going to introduce myself a little bit so you know me a little better and understand better my struggles. I was a fat child (never obese, just a bit overweighted but enough to make me feel bad). My parents put me into very restictive diets being too young, followed by periods of nutritional anarchy, and I've been carrying this pattern all of my life. So when I stress a lot with my diet, I managed to keep my weight low. But when life interferes and I stop stressing over food, I go authomatically back to nutritional anarchy and put on weight fast. Last time was with my pregnancy and first months of my baby, I went up to 74 Kg, never before in my life went that high (I'm 1,57m tall), before I decided to do something. IF was the only thing I could do, having a baby to take care of and working full time, so I started doing one weekly fast, then two, and when I discovered how easy and simple was for me, I started doing it every working day (keeping weekends off), untill now. At the beggining I didn't even care about the quality of my only meal, but with time it improved (I start adding a fruit as dessert, then some vegetables too, and now my dinner usually have protein (meat, fish or eggs) with vegetables, some bread or rice, and fruit for dessert. Being a short lady, my calorie requirement is not very high so I can meet most of it in only one large meal while making simple to keep a calorie deficit. This way is how I lost these 18 kg, being now my weight 56 kg, and I want to get to 48 Kg more or less.

I was not sure if Thrive could help me but I was just too curious about the way it worked, and as it has a 30-day money back warranty I've decided to give it a try. Now, in my first week, I think I'm going to stay on it and see where it drives me. My expectation for the course are to get my nutrition as close as optimal as possible in a mindless way, without stressing too much over food (I don't have time nor energy to do that at this moment of my life). I like the thing of stressing on one point at a time and not going ahead until mastered. I think I'll probably progress more slowly on the program than most of you, but I want that good nutrition becomes second nature to me and the only way I can get that is progressing slowly I guess. So let's see what happens.

Thank you!

You didn't offend anyone  Sorry if i seemed a bit harsh with my post. Being a mother, I'm sure you understand a hard "shake on the shoulder" can get attention. Like Jeff said, losing that much weight is a great accomplishment, even if you did lose some muscle. I just don't want to see yet another person fall into the same cycle of: 

1 hour ago, Aguasanta Moran said:

...very restictive diets... followed by periods of nutritional anarchy, and I've been carrying this pattern all of my life... But when life interferes and I stop stressing over food, I go authomatically back to nutritional anarchy and put on weight fast.

I suppose technically Jeff didn't specify when breakfast should be... so unless he objects you should be ok! Like you said, in upcoming steps it will resolve itself.

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey!

Thank you Jason for your answer. I think you're right in that fat percentage is more important than weight loss, at least at this stage that I'm much closer to my ideal weight (before, when I had all that weight to lose, the most important thing for me was to lose it fast). So my goal now shouldn't be 48 Kg, but 18% body fat to look athletic, whatever the weight is. I'm doing strength training to keep or even elevate my lean mass, but now, even if my muscle is growing (I can't know this, but I'm definitly stronger than when I started), as it is under a layer of fat it's not visible. I don't meassure my bodyfat, but it should be around 25% judging by this image:

Considering that I've started looking more as the 34-35% body fat image, it's a good improvement, but I actually want to look athletic, like the one of 17-18% or at least the one of 20-21%.

I hope Thrive and strength training can help me get there (and stay there) while enjoying the process. And I also hope that at a certain point, making good choices become authomatic so staying at that bodyfat percentage is not stressful for me anymore. These are my main expectation, let's see if the course meet them, even if it takes me a little long.

Aguasanta, 

It sounds like you put a great deal of effort into your nutrition and Im happy to hear that. I am a huge anti-IF guy unless you are 40% body fat and you desperately want to lose weight and you don't care where it comes from.

In the world of physique you have to understand they take drugs. Then they do things like IF for a percentage of the week. Its not comparing apples to apples. Doing anything on drugs works. Not on drugs is a different story. Furthermore, what about heath? I personally put heath before appearance but the bonus of that is you cant be overweight and heathy. 

Breakfast is within 1 hour of waking up. I will edit the course. Please do the course as is. The reason we offer the 30 day money back is because if you do it to the letter of the law for 30 days you will see progress.

Sorry for my late answer, I've been on holidays, but still thinking in how thrive can fits me... As far as I know, research shows that fasting is a healhy thing to do sometimes... maybe not the way I'm doing i, but I thought the program would be more flexible in meals schedule. I wanted to use the fasts for long term weight manteinance (one or two 24h fast a week, as proposed by Brad Pilon, whose book Eat stop eat I loved and made me easier to lose weight and keep it off: http://www.eatstopeat.com/ and http://bradpilon.com/introduction-to-intermittent-fasting/), and use the Thrive advises to eat healthier while actually eating...

In the other hand, even if I want to use Thrive as prescrived, for me it would not be a change at a time, but more (adding a meal implies a lot of food choices, only to add that healthy fat in the morning... it adds more stress to my life than the "one thing at a time" strategy I wanted to implement...), as I have to figure out a healthy breakfast everyday... I can take the rule literally and forget about all the rest... that way, a croissant with butter would be a good breakfast according to this fase of the program... but as I want to do better than that, and have no more information from the program at this moment, I stress myself figuring out a good breakfast... do you understand my point?

So still not sure if Thrive is for me or not...

Auguasanta, I can't speak to the science and pros/cons of IF (I'll leave that to others), but it sounds to me like you have a lot of anxiety about food choices and gaining weight (which is understandable!). And you're right that the program's one-step at a time approach is really more than one step at a time given your current approach. 

That said, I think you're over thinking it. Sure, you could eat a croissant and butter and be compliant for breakfast (at this point), but you know intuitively that's a bad idea. I see from your breakfast earlier you already have a good sense of a healthy meal, and there are a lot of suggestions on this forum to inspire you. 

Alternatively, you could just have a cup of coffee for breakfast with 2-4 tablespoons heavy cream and wait for further instructions  

Really, though, information/requirements really pick up speed with the course; it won't be long before you have much more guidance on meal construction.  

People who have completed the program say they think they'll be able to maintain this diet for life--high praise! I think you'd find the same if you give it a shot.

Good luck figuring out what will work for you!

Aguasanta,

You definitely have put some thought into what you want to do and it sounds like you are very skeptical to step outside your box. Thats okay if you are having success and you want to keep having success. If you are not as successful then you need to get as far away from what you are currently doing as possible.

The crowd Thrive has struggled with the most is Vegetarians. Its not because being a vegetarian is bad. Its because most of them had come in here with a framework of what they were and were not going to do before ever hearing me out. Agin, it is possible to be a vegetarian on Thrive just look at El Chino but it is not possible to come in here with preconceived ideas of what you are and are not willing to do. I feel this is the boat you fall in. It sounds like you are very attached to IF. Good for you, jump into the program 100% and report back in 8-12 weeks with your progress. If your not happy then we start Thrive with full commitment.  But whatever you do - don't do half my program and half IF - it will not work. There is more going on in Thrive that I explain in the course so to change something is asking for it. 

No matter what direction you go in I wish you the best of luck. 

I like the idea of 8-12 weeks then retesting. What Is the worst thing that could happen? 

You lose your heath, don't make shit for progress, ingrain terrible habits and waste 12 weeks. Thats it. But, no pressure. 

All jokes aside. The point I was trying to make is do whatever it is your going to do 100% for a period of time then reevaluate. If it did not work then get as far away from it as possible. The problem for most people is the do 50% of their idea of what they should be doing.

Example

50% Thrive + 50% whatever your ideas are = very little results so you move on claiming thrive does not work. 

50% IF + 50% whatever your ideas are = very little results so you move on claiming IF does not work

Do you see the common denominator? Its the 50% whatever your ideas are that is whats holding you back not the other 50%. 

Do not mistake my above post as an endorsement of IF. If it worked it would be in Thrive. But, 100% in on any kind of diet is better than 50% of your own ideas.

Good point, Jeff. Also, doing it this way is kind of a nice mental break. Evaluating different research on nutrition can get really overwhelming. There are so many experts with different perspectives, it's exhausting trying to decide the best course of action based on the information available. It also detracts from my compliance when the skeptic/thinker inside me is questioning if XYS is really the best choice. 

Right now I'm 100% Thrive and it's a nice break to obey and not over-think! 

Haha, those are some bad side effects you mentioned Jeff.

I want to add I tried a brief period of IF, to challenge my own learning about a year ago while seeking advice from GB members on the nutrition forum. I liked most, the feeling that kicked in later in the morning: lighter, sort of a fat burning feeling; hard to describe.

The purpose of my comments is that I want to mention since trying this: From Jeff''s other breakfast post: 4) The old CP meat and nuts

I get that same light "fat burning", clarity of performance feel. The only difference is now with meat and nuts for breakfast, I feel an energy to want to bust down a door. 

19 hours ago, Julia Quigley said:

but it sounds to me like you have a lot of anxiety about food choices and gaining weight (which is understandable!). And you're right that the program's one-step at a time approach is really more than one step at a time given your current approach. 

Thank you Julia, you're right, I still carry a lot of anxiety over food... I'll show you some pictures of mine so you understand why.

This one is from the summer before of my pregnancy, and the one I've used as motivation during my weight loss journey:

This is me last April, carrying my baby and more than 20 Kg of fat:

I never ever want to be like this anymore, never.

This is me right now:

In the second one, I know I'm not at all at your level guys, but for me it's a good accomplishment, since I was not able to get my butt off the ground when I started, so I feel proud of myself (most people I know are not able to get their butt off the ground anyway...).

So yes, I'm guilty of anxiety over food and gaining weight. Reading you all, I've decided not to ask for money back and give Thrive a serious try... follow instructions and not overthink... building good habits that will follow me for the rest of my life (I hope...), and get cured of yo-yoing forever (I really need this).

Thank you all guys for taking your time reading my posts and answering my questions, I really appreciate it.

You made the right choice, and I'm sure you'll do fine. Losing that weight by yourself was already quite the achievement! Keep up the training, do your tasks and I'm sure you'll see results. 

Welcome to 100% Thrive, Aguasanta! Congratulations on the big progress you've made both with your weight and with your physical abilities! I can't wait to see what you achieve from here. 

Hola Aguasanta!

I think you made the right decision. I know where you're at. A friend of mine put on a lot of weight when she was pregnant and struggled for a long time to get rid of the unwanted body fat and she still has anxiety about eating. I have mentioned Thrive to her but I don't think she's mentally ready to put her life in the hands of someone else. I'll wait till she asks me about it again.

It's great that you managed to lose that weight all by yourself and looking at your pics it must have been hard work and you should be proud of where you got to today. And now the next stage to is to put yourself into the hands of an expert and someone who has produced results at the highest levels.

I came onto the program as a vegetarian aka terrorist, and at the beginning I did question whether I could succeed on the program considering that Thrive was all about what were the most optimal foods and not about following any kind of established dietary plan already in existence. I tried my best to keep an open mind and put myself 100% into it and now it has been almost a week since I finished the course. I no longer check my boxes but the behaviours have become ingrained into me. It's almost scary how automatic and robot like I just go to the fridge and start pulling out all the right food I need to fit into my daily meal plan without really thinking about it nor having to stress myself over it. So cool.

Thrive fits the GB philosophy of only using what works and getting rid of what does not. No dogma allowed. All of us who have finished Thrive can probably attest to this. It took me 3 months to finish the program. I feel the difference it has made every minute of my day now, from steady energy levels throughout the day, better recovery through to the quality of my sleep.

Anyway, I am starting to sound like a broken record now. So good for you that you're going to give it 100%. Look forward to hearing your report back in 12 weeks.

Agusanta, 

Nice work and Im glad you chose to stay with us! Please ask any and all the questions you need. We won't let you fail due to lack of information or assistance. 

Cheers,

Jeff

Hi Agusanta!

How are you doing? How did it go? I´m so curious. Read the whole thread. Hope you did well, and above all feel really good.

/Jackie

On 3/17/2016 at 9:12 AM, Aguasanta Moran said:

I was just trying to figure out how I can adapt thrive to my lifestyle.

I think the point of Thrive is to slowly adapt your lifestyle to the Thrive guidelines, not the other way around. (FWIW I am (was?) a big fan of IF (5:2), so I was particularly interested in this topic)