FL/PE2 Form check dilemma

I don’t even know what to say here. It’s very hard for my lower back to flex. I have the coordination to do the rocking motion, BUT my lower back doesn’t flex more, so I’m a bit at a loss here. I can only work with the range I presently have. With everything else, I've seen progress rather quickly. My body usually adapts to the training demands, but with the Rocks and JCs, I feel I am going no where. It may take light years to “unlock” my lower back. Not sure if it’s even possible as I’ve been told some of the stiffness is ligamentous, structural… 

Parting thought: If I had gigantic spoon, I could easily rock, hold position and go with the flow.

Perhaps.  Perhaps not.

It is far too early to say with certainty what is and is not possible for you to remodel tissue wise.

Patience.  It will take as long as it takes.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

After reading your description I thought the video would be worse (same happened with the pushups btw). It may not be perfect but you are definitely on the right track. Here's something to try: grab your knees with straight arms and push your knees away (with your legs not your arms). It will pull your shoulders up and forward. It helps to get the feeling for curling the lower and upper back, but you might even feel a stretch. You can even rock in this position.

PHD (Patience. Hope. Determination.) I have. I am not a quitter. 

 

I can only speak from my past experience. I've been at it for a few years and only seen what I consider a slight improvement. I want to see a greater adaptation. I want to do better and feel successful at this one.

 

Whether I need more external force, frequency, duration, variety... I need to overload the system in new ways to create more change.

 

What ELSE could I be doing to further the cause. I'm willing to do anything, whatever it takes.

Jason, thank you for your insight. Funny you say that. I've tried not one but several variations like the one you're describing and yes, the closer the chain so to speak, the cleaner my rocking is. The best variation has been with my knees to chest, making the tightest ball as possible. That's somewhat successful. However, it's not the position/shape required for mastery here. I have a feeling for what the rocking should feel like. The "problem" is I feel I have a piece of plywood stuck in my lower back that's ruining my Carnegie Hall act. It's not the first time I'm trying these rocks either. It's simply a reminder that I don't have the pre-requisites to do this properly, hence my earlier lament.

I'm interested in how to solve the root cause – trespassing the neurological bumper zone or what ever else is in the way. Any takers?

Can you post a picture in kneeling tuck with your lower back showing.

You mean literally a kneeling position with a ppt from a side view. Or supine hollow with knees tucked? Sorry if I'm being literal, just want to make sure I take the correct picture.

Attached is image of me in a child pose w/arms by my side and butt to heels (left side). Notice the concave indentation at my lumbar and the fact that the apex of the spine curve starts at my thoracic.

Thanks Zach. I also tried opening my legs angle more like you say, like the course video and it's even harder to transition then as my back becomes flatter when my hip opening increases. Will try again and again.

I don't have a medical condition, other than a L5-S1 herniation (impinging nerve root bilateral) and L4-L5 bulging. I agree, there's a motor acquisition aspect and I'm generally good at that, but here I feel a physical limitation. That's what I was trying to express. 

You are not far off having enough flexion in the lower lumbar spine to do the BHBr. Some anterior to posterior joint mobilisation of those lower lumbar joints would make the world of difference. 

As coach has stated be patient. Unfortunately you have started Coach's program later in life. You have not been following these programs long enough to know what you will be capable of. In several years you will be amazed at how much your body will change.

Precisely. "Later in life" means I have to work harder in the remodeling of my tissues and joint mobility. 

When you say ant/post mobs, are you referring to manual therapy? Any particular techniques (names)? I could instruct my massage therapist or a PT per your recommendation. Thank you for your time 

Eva,

I see what you are talking about in the picture, but I wouldn`t worry about it. Everyone has there own unique physical structure and you appear to have been blessed better erector spinae, back muscles than most.  This can present on the surface as an increased lumber convexity.  As Zach stated opening the hip angle improves the movement. The closed hip angle gives an increased bias to the hip flexors, not allowing for a strong contraction of the deep abdominal PPT muscles that lengthen the lower spine for a smooth roll. Excellent work, you are kicking ass.  

Ryan, thank you so much for your feedback. I love getting to know the forum members and when someone stops by my post Is like having "new customers at my store."

I'll be dreaming about the hip angle tonite for sure. Starting BHbR everyday until I get it done. I'm going to sprinkle it around the day like water! Also working on getting my stall bars installed, which is a major production. I think that when I can get to play with other angles and more frequency, my body will respond better. 

I'm 100% with you about the hip flexors bias and understand that the opening angle facilitates the ppt activation. Those flexor puppies are hyper active 24/7.

What I was trying to say is that when I do open the angle with my unique body structure, I have even less control and the challenge of my glutes getting in the way – starting a new curve in the opposite direction, after a flat lumbar line, which makes the clunkiness unavoidable, even if in full ppt because butt is sticking out. When the lumbar gives that won't be an issue. 

You guys help me reframe what now seems impossible. One cannot go from A to B, if you'd never been there. If I can unlock those facets with time and perseverance that's all I need to know (for now). 

Rome wasn’t build in one weekend. Here’s how I started my F7 today, after dreaming for a better BHbR for this week. I prepped my lower back flexion with feedback from a boxing bag 4 x 10r + 20 sec pause on the last rep (until I felt some vibration). Then, BHbR with a slightly more open hip angle. Probably going a bit to high in the upper body (?). See what you think. Any improvements?

Loaded lumbar flexion

BHbR

All points noted,tx! I embrace struggle. As long as I see incremental progress, no matter how small, I'm happy.

I believe I did one version with no or less knee flicking, but then my butt barely left the ground and things were getting like slow-mo. Do you want to see?

Ok, will do. Same views here.

I’ve figured out how to apply selective tension with my core while maintaining my structure. As my neuro-motor skill improves, I’m being breath by the motion and feeling more efficient, although not being effortless yet. Will it ever be?

The best way to describe selective tension is actually how I teach core activation: as a continuum. I compare it to a dimmer switch, rather than a toggle switch. It’s a concept/protocol I learned from CST (Scott Sonnon). We use it with Clubbells, where you purposely change your grip tension depending at what point you’re while swinging Clubbells, but it really applies to a broad range of movement skills.

This clip is two weeks later. Don’t be shy:

A little variation over hips angle is showed, you should reduce this variation up to zero.

At first, I was at a loss with this one. I thought that with my back, rocks would not be even possible, much less mastery… But I put my thoughts aside and focused on what Coach said:

On 3/4/2016 at 0:39 AM, Coach Sommer said:

It is far too early to say with certainty what is and is not possible for you to remodel tissue wise.

In addition to my F7, I’ve been doing the rocks DAILY on my days off, 60s X 2 (or 3 depending on how pissed I was) and supplementing with lower back loaded mobility drills + stall bars. I think the knee flicking is killed now. Starting a new cycle next Mon and I’d like to hook it with my next FL progression. Yes, no?

Bump

"Feet closer" I can do that! I actually rejected and deleted those clips because it felt easier when toes where 1-2" from floor. I will curl more too, thank you!

Physical limitations, me? Just a stubborn stiff as heck LB.

Feet closer to the ground, curling the torso more and controlling knees so there’s no flicking. This is my 5th set. After I finished my last set I told myself “let me try the straddle hold.” 60 sec, no problem, except a minor toe cramp. Since I didn’t want to show a clip where my toes switch to demi pointe for the last 20 sec, I did it again, boom, 60 more seconds. My core must be getting stronger… 
https://youtu.be/SjzlhLQjV0I
 

Here’s the Straddle Hold. I could get the legs lower if needed. I went with a medium straddle, the hardest I could find, but obviously I can change its width. Feedback please.

I’ve been doing these 3x/week for 3.5 months and everyday (2-4 sets) since March 6^th to the point that they’re not that challenging to my core now. I don’t mean this as badge of honor, on the contrary, I knew from day one that my “inflexible” lower back would be my limiter here. I’ve worked to open my hips angle, killed the flicking on the knees angle, then the torso, while working on my lower back mobility. Now coming to the conclusion that I need to accept I have a very shallow rock and maybe that’s just how good I can make it for now.
 

Thank you Zach! You're my "rock" in my "rocking" journey.