Rice types and flours

Had a couple questions on rice.

1) Are other types of rice that still have the bran and germ on the grain intact as high in anti-nutrients as regular brown rice? For example, purple/black rice, Camargue red rice, etc.

2) Anything wrong with things like rice flour or items made from rice flour? Say I want to make mochi out of glutinous rice flour (no additives, just 100% ground up glutinous rice). Sometimes I'll make it from freshly steamed mochi rice and pound it with a pestle but I'm usually too lazy and make it from the flour. How about rice paper for wrapping spring rolls, which is also just made from rice and water?

1) White rice is white because the bran and hull are removed and that is where the anti nutrients are. I would tend to stay away from those for now. 

2) Where does it end? What end is there to the transformation and modification of food. I'm a simple guy, I draw the line at its either real food or its not. All the while rice paper spring rolls home made are okay the same can't be said for manufactured ones. Flour is notorious for having problems, and in my eyes isn't worth the trouble. 

Got it, will stay away from those kinds of rice, flours, and the wrappers (since I wouldn't be making them from scratch).

In regards to glutinous rice: I'm not sure I understand the difference between cooked rice and the same rice that's been cooked, then pounded. My impression was that it would be like eating raw spinach versus blending the same spinach into a smoothie (no juice or sugar of course). Just genuinely curious about whether you would consider it not real food if it's been prepared this way, not planning on making this for my staple starches. Totally see your point about going down a rabbit hole though, I'm not trying to find loopholes to make fake "healthy" foods.

I am thinking sushi for lunch today sounds like a good idea.

Jun,

Thats a good question I can see how my point of view looks arbitrary. To be honest I should have given you a better answer above so here it is now. 

This is a question of food philosophy so you don't have to agree with me 100%. In the case of rice I see you buying rice and transforming that into anything you want as a good thing. Now using the justification that rice paper is just rice and its easier to buy is where all the problems originate. Yes the main ingredient is rice but anything made in a factory has a large amount of preservatives as well as binders and other GRAS items that are not listed on the label. So yes you may believe you are eating just rice transformed into paper, you are not. In the case of spinach there is this same example floating around this forum if you search my posts. Buying fresh organic spinach then putting it into your blender and making yourself a smoothie is okay but, again here is the problem; bottled "spinach smoothies" are not the same thing. They start with barley eatable spinach that is of the lowest grade(left overs) then they addd other preservatives and things for taste. One of which is some cleverly labels form of sugar and all the while you have now consumed 2 spinach leaves and 2 tablespoons of sugar, not worth it. 

Its an arbitrary line I draw here unless you spend the hours researching this stuff. So here is a drill - go to a smoothie place like Neckter, True Foods, Whole Foods, or some allegedly heathy fresh juice place and actually watch how they make a shake. Yes the stuff in the store front is fresh. The stuff they are given you is some pre made concoction they dump into a blender then add again some sort of heathy sugar(no such thing in reality). Now after you drink that spinach smoothie then go home and make one yourself and see how much sugar you need to add before yours taste like theirs. Results are disappointing. You just paid $6 for hippie Kool-Aid. 

Special internet troll note: Yes Im sure there is an anomaly. Im sure there is one place in America that sells truly just spinach blended up and nothing else. 

Mark: Sushi for lunch always sounds like a great idea!

Jeff: Thanks for expanding. I guess I usually take the ingredients list on dry foods at face value without considering the quality of what goes into it, where and how it's processed, and other unlisted items like preservatives. I always thought preservatives were put on the label. For example, I've seen preservatives on ingredients lists that'll say "Sodium Benzoate (as a preservative)." I had assumed that if the list only said something like "Rice, Water" that it wouldn't have additional additives, but from your explanation, it looks like it's not the case.

Your example makes perfect sense, especially for foods like smoothies or prepackaged meals that are supposed to use fresh ingredients.

Jun,

Yea, it makes sense that you should list everything in the product on the label. Your thought process is a logical one but, google "GRAS". basically its a list of stuff that is allegedly safe that they don't have to put on the label that is anything but safe. 

Don't get yourself too wrapped around the axel about all this additive stuff. I get crazy sometimes so take my comments on this one with a grain of salt. Just focus on your steps and take pride in completing them. 

Cheers,
Jeff

Re: Sushi for lunch.

I attended a sushi making course when in Japan last  year. It was eye opening how much sugar is added to normal sushi rice. Our portion for 2 people had about 6 teaspoons of sugar. Checking some recipes online ratios are 50g sugar to a few cups of rice.

May need some further discussion but I no longer think of sushi as a healthy food. Home made with less/no sugar would be a different story.

I think the problem is largely overstated. Some people do put more sugar in rice than others yes. The lower the quality the higher the sugar content. 

The fundamental step of this course is to add all the good stuff then take away the bad stuff. To worry about every single additive in store bought food would lead you to making 100% of your food at home. Most everywhere you go your food will be cooked in vegetable oil and various other ingredients. So if we compare all take out foods then I still say sushi wins. 

Go to a restaurant, order a salad and ask for olive oil on the side for dressing. Dip your fork in that olive oil and taste the quality. Guarantee just about everywhere you go it will be rancid. So whats better? Rancid olive oil? sugar in sushi? 

Just focus on adding as much good as you can and don't worry about the rest for now. 

It can be a problem, but you can turn it to your advantage: it's a nice way to spot a good or bad sushi place. Sweet sushi means I won't be coming back. On the contrary, if it's less sweet, I can actually evaluate the quality of the rice and fish so I'll know right away if it's good or not. Well, I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore because I've found the best sushi place in the world.  Okay, maybe just in my region.

It's a good point about the cheaper places throwing in more sugar and also generally having a higher ratio of rice to filling.

To give some context to my post, my experience was a few years ago I was eating a large quantity of sushi for lunch regularly, which is also easy to do with sushi, and thinking it was one of the best lunches I could be having. After learning more about how the sushi rice is prepared, especially if hungry I'm more likely now to go for one of the lunch set options like chicken or salmon teriyaki which come with a side of steamed rice. If I have sushi rolls I'll have a few but won't overdo it.

Ross,

Hate to burst your bubble but Teriyaki sauce is sugar + soy sauce + refined vegetable oil. The steamed rice at a restaurant is rarely just steamed in water. Most have some from of refined vegetable oil. Straight sushi still wins.

This is why its tricky to compare restart foods. At some level something they do is very far from optimal. But that is looking at it through a microscope. Just worry about hitting your steps and don't worry about this - we never really landed on the moon conspiracy type stuff until level 2. 

Thanks for the feedback. It has definitely prompted some thinking.

You quickly realise food choices have endless micro-detail that can be looked at. I am enjoying that the instructions in this program direct away from over analysis and are easy to follow. Some of the discussion of various ingredients in these sub forums has been surprising and interesting.

Given the Japanese reputation for a healthy and long lived population, I've found it interesting that many of the dishes I've cooked at home have a reasonable amount of added sugar especially in sauces and marinades. Lots of soy and wheat based noodle dishes too in the cities we visited. I don't know what the normal diet is for a local Japanese person but I assume a basis of rice, seafood and vegetables along with good portion control must have a big contribution to their health and long life.

The reputation of the Japanese as heathy started with research finding low obesity and cardiovascular disease. The Okinawa diet is a study of a form of their diet that received a lot of attention for the absence of the obesity and CVD all the while getting a majority of their calories from carbs. Don't mistake the traditional Japanese diet for modern day junk food purchased in Japan. 

Coach, would love to get your take on white rice vs. soaked brown rice that has 95% of the phytic acid removed and nutrients intact

http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/04/01/phytic-acid-in-rice-reduced-96-with-accelerated-fermentation/

It says fermentation is good for 56-92% reduction (large delta, makes me wonder). Soaking is only good for a 42-59% reduction which is lame when it starts with 10 times the phytic acid. You are left with a net negative of 5 times more phytic acid than if you just got white rice. 

I will read the study later and reply 

@Ross Dankbaar RE: sushi sugar - I've been playing around with using small amount of powdered stevia leaf in place of the refined sugar in sushi seasoning with success. It looks a little icky when you mix it into the vinegar with the salt, but distributed through the rice you can't even notice the greeny brown tinge. It gives that authentic hint of sweetness that I think good sushi rice needs, but without the sugar.

Also, if you do want to use sugar it's amazing how much you can reduce the "required" amount in a recipe and still have an amazing result. Usually you can cut the amount by half - unless you have a crazy sweet tooth.

So what about sprouted brown rice?

If the problem with brown rice is mostly the phytic acid, then how does sprouted brown rice differ in that sense? Not sure what the difference is between that and soaking it.

I guess the answer is probably that nothing is better than definitely no phytic acid (aka white rice), which fair enough. But as I understand sprouted brown rice has all these other awesome benefits that white rice doesn't. So is it worth it?

Interesting knowing about phytic acid though... I've always noticed that I feel a little weird and bloated after eating regular brown rice, but with white and sprouted brown rice I don't.