sPL Protraction

Hi all, sometimes I notice with the straddle planche progressions that my scapular poke out sideways. That is to say, if you look at my position from the side, my scaps don't break my body line. But if you look from the front, the stick out. Sometimes it is very pronounced and other times less and then others it's not even present as far as I can tell. It's not a case of fatigue I don't think as it can sometimes be present from the moment I start planche work. I don't know if it's an issue, but if it is I imagine it is one of correct activation?? Does this need to be fixed? If so how can I correct it? I've attached the two views I was talking about.

These would fall under the "less noticable" category, but it is just about visible from the front on the left (my right scap). Is this a problem or am I being too picky??

Thanks in advance.

Max

given how minimal it is, I doubt you've had injury to your long thoracic nerve, though that is one cause of a "winging" scapula.  more than likely you have weakness of your serratus anterior, which will improve with the foundation program.  

Okay, thanks for the reply and reassurance Douglas.

Max

Maksis, are you referring to just the right scapula in the top video? Or it's more of a random thing that you've experienced in both. You're smart in confirming you have the correct muscle activation upfront. Seconding what Douglas said about your SA (serratus anterior), the superior and inferior parts of the SA should act together and work with their best friend, the rhomboids, to keep the scapulae flush against the ribs. The lower trap fibers should be doing their job too. There're so many possible motions and lines of pull at the scapulothoracic "joint" that even on a static hold, it pretty much can go anywhere "against your intend," depending on your individual strength/weaknesses and body awareness. It's hard to say without seeing your right side and a bird's-eye view for scapulae position (symmetry) bilaterally. It looks to me that in comparison to your lats, your SA, external obliques and lower abs could be more engaged. The lower back is sinking a bit. You could play with the amount of external rotation at the humerus vs at the elbow pit too. Not sure if that's of any help... Asking and making mistakes it's a good way to learn. Hope coaches can jump in!

Thanks Eva! I have noticed it on both sides before now. I think it makes sense to be a weakness in the SA, I weight lifted for a good 9 years so perhaps it's just something that never got developed compared to my Delts? I remember the first time I mastered scap shrugs, it was intense on the Delts. I'll get up bids of my right side and do my best for a bird's eye view too. 

Until I figure out the activation I will work on more general tightness in the areas you mentioned. 

Actually when when I try to externally rotate the humerus it feels like it is acting to depress the scapula, is this right?

It's an odd one, I feel really quite stable in the position I'm in but think learning to make the scaps completely flat will reinforce it for more complex positions down the road.

Thanks a lot for the input, I've been following foundations consistently for over a year now but have only recently started posting on the forums. It's such a great resource, I should have started sooner.

Max

10 hours ago, Maksis Riley said:

Until I figure out the activation I will work on more general tightness in the areas you mentioned. 

Actually when when I try to externally rotate the humerus it feels like it is acting to depress the scapula, is this right?

It's an odd one, I feel really quite stable in the position I'm in but think learning to make the scaps completely flat will reinforce it for more complex positions down the road.

Thanks a lot for the input, I've been following foundations consistently for over a year now but have only recently started posting on the forums. It's such a great resource, I should have started sooner.

Maksis, 

I mention that lower area because 1) your lats look well developed in comparison to your SA and obliques. And 2) Instead of thinking to bring your scaps flat towards your rib cage, one thing it's hard to do, or often missed is the idea of LIFTING your rib cage (rib cage retraction). The SA and abs can help bring the rib cage underneath the scaps, providing the scaps a resting spot.

Yeah, the external rotator cuff muscles depress the humeral head. The lower fibers of SA help with the posterior tilt of the shoulders (meaning the top of the scapulae goes back and the bottom goes forward against the ribs). If you think about coiling at the upper arm, as in trying to point your armpits in an outward direction (external rotation), you'll have a stronger connection to your hands and activate the spiral lines of your arms, which I'm sure we'll need even more when we start leaning forward. When I teach SA activation, I always tell people to push hard, feel the lift of ground reaction force and externally rotate simultaneously. They get the feeling right away underneath their lats.

I think you're right. We need to nail these positions rock solid to the point that our whole body is SO integrated that we can almost float, or have barely any weight in our feet – even when our feet are still touching the floor. At least, that's what I picture. I'm sure coaches will jump in if I said something that's off-base.

You're welcome. Thank you for this opportunity to think. You don't know something until you can teach it, correctly. Never too late. Glad you posted. Keep the good work coming!

Definetely a SA on the right is not holding the scapula against the rib cage. I would start with some single arm planks. You can do these on an incline or on the floor. Don't do them as mastery, but more to get some activation. Sometimes the lack of protraction/activation is secondary to thoracic and rib tightness. Never simple with the body.

Thank you for all the advice and going into so much detail Eva and Mark.

I actually have been working the single arm planks as my main progression, do you think this is wise Mark or should I go back to the full plank and keep the single arms for activation and extra work only?

Eva, that makes a lot of sense regarding retraction of the ribs, I will focus on that cue and other details you picked out. Thanks again! Although it can sometimes be disheartening spending this amount of time on such seemingly simple things, it is actually quite exciting and I'm sure the benefits of doing so will be worth it. 

Max

I would stay on the single arm plank as that is what will fix the imbalance. I would video it every couple of weeks to check your progress.

Great Mark, I will do that and start back from week 1. I've been playing with the cues you gave Eva and already noticed an improvement. I think it helps for me to not imagine the weight being borne by the arms but actually by the lifting the rib cage as you've said.

I'll keep updating this thread with progress videos and get this nailed.

Really appreciate all the help!

Max