Meals per day

Jeff,

I wanted to ask how many meals a day you were recommending.

Over the past few years, I've generally followed the protocols from Leangains/RippedBody.jp. I currently workout fasted first thing in the morning (with BCAAs on my 3 foundation days) and then eat two larger meals later in the day, tracking macros and carb/calorie cycling based on my foundation training days.

I do this for three main reasons:

• I don't feel well if I've eaten anything closer than a couple of hours before my workout
• First thing in the morning is the only consistent time I'm always available to train (still trying to burn it in as a habit)
• I get better compliance as I'm able to track my intake

I have no specific attachment to this protocol apart from the fact it fits my current lifestyle. I wanted to get your opinion if there is anything that I should be changing, as the steps so far are focused on having three meals. 

Thanks,

Dave

Where did you come up with the name Lurking Frog?

First and foremost to success is consistency. It sounds like you have a plan and its working for you so I am very apprehensive about trying to change that. I like that you workout based off a time you can be consistent, I also like that you say you have no specific (emotional) attachment to this protocol other than it fits your current lifestyle. Those are 2 very important things. 

As to your question of how many meals I recommend. I recommend you make it through Thrive as fast as you can and master the basics then in Level 2 we can get into the advanced stuff. But again, its the basics that have the highest return for your investment of time so there is no need to rush to the advanced steps. I would like to see you eat at least 3 times a day. More than 4 is focusing on things that aren't at the current level. Meal frequency is a function of goal (performance/physique). 

You cant ride two horses with one ass. If you combine Thrive and LeanGains you will fail miserably because in the end you are just doing whatever you want and using Martin and I to justify it. Pick one, drink the kook-aid and start making progress.

Thrive is about the least amount of inputs to be lean, heathy, and have energy for performance training (very different than physique training). Through the hundreds of clients I have done this with this is the easiest way to walk around sub 10% (to the reader; if I put my calipers on you, you'd be 3-5% fatter than you think you are) and be able to preform at a level that wouldn't embarrass you in front of Coach at a workshop. 

Thanks for the answer Jeff; my single ass is all in on Thrive. I'll try adding in a grab and go breakfast after my workout like a couple of hard boiled eggs and a sausage patty made from pastured pork. The current tasks so far are pretty minimally different from the way I have been eating which is about 90% paleo with lots of veggies, just a more organized in the timing. I think part of my problem is that I have a few too many "cheats" slipping in at work.

Apart being fat (estimating between 25 - 30% bf these days @205 lbs, 5' 11"), I joined here because what I was doing stopped being effective about a year ago. I know enough to tinker with my diet, but without the coaching experience behind the knowledge I would be stumbling around for quite a while trying to get to where I want to be. For the first time, I'm finally cracking down and trying to follow all the recommended programs now - Foundation One, Handstand One, all three stretch series, and just got the tumbling.

I've used the handle of Lurking Frog for decades now. The frog is because an old spell checker always used to tell me that my last name should be spelled "Frogperson", which ironically, today's spell checker is telling me isn't a word. The Lurking is from the way I tend to read message boards like this but rarely say anything. For example, this is the first post I've made here but had an account here since it was first created; I even have Coach's Building the Gymnastic Body book sitting in my book case and still use the first iteration of the xstream rings. 

Thrive 1 was a big help in setting obtainable structure to meals. When I'm done eating I feel great. In my personal case, the good news is that I didn't particularly have to do away with a lot of foods or make huge changes in my habits, instead I ended up adding more at meal times and taking away food in-between. This leads me to my question.

At what point does the body turn away from glycogen stores in the body and begin breaking down muscle tissue? Clearly in circumstances of extreme fasting or someone who's ill, but what about time between meals? If your body begins to feel weak because it's been 6 hours since your last meal, is this a sign? 

My lifestyle consists of waking up around 6:30. At a minimum I drink a glass of milk as soon as I get out of bed, but try to hold off eating breakfast as a meal until around 8:00am. Ninety percent of the time I enter the gym to begin my workout between 12:30-1pm. So far, I haven't noticed any decrease in strength or stamina between eating breakfast and working out. Lunch is generally after the workout and can be anywhere between 2:00-3pm. I feel amazing after my midday workout and it gives me an extra boost of energy to finish off the day. Since bedtime for me usually ends up being between 11:00pm-12, I shoot for dinner time around 8:00-9pm. In the evenings between 5:00-7pm are when I feel the biggest sense of emptiness inside my body. I drink more water during this time to make myself feel fuller, and it helps, but is this a sign my body is calling for fuel or breaking down muscle proteins? 

At lunch I'm eating a sandwich size bag full of spinach leaves with 5 baby carrots and 3 cherry tomatoes (I consider it between 1-2 fistfuls). The raw veggies definitely do their job a few hours after lunch, but I even begin feel sluggish in brain function towards 7:00pm. Maybe I'm just crying about something that I'm meant to endure. I used to eat an orange and a paleo bar around 6 to keep me going before dinner, but I've cut it out to stick with guidelines we've been provided. To be fair, around 11:00am-12 I also feel super empty inside, but by the time I go to the gym I forget about it. I also used to eat a banana around 10:30am for an extra boost, but have since cut that out as well. In summary, meals are about 6 hours apart.

On days I can't get to the gym midday I'm there by 5pm. Problem here is that there are 2 hours between finishing a workout and replenishing my body, but we haven't been given any other instructions otherwise so I roll with it. What can be said about the fatigue and weird feeling inside my stomach and head? Are my meals too far apart? If I don't eat dinner within 2-3 hours before bed the hunger won't allow me to sleep.

By the way, Saturdays I usually wake up later, eat later, but still feel a need for fuel later in the afternoon. I workout Monday-Friday, Saturday-Sunday are rest days. Sunday I rarely eat breakfast and I'm not awake before 10:00-11am. Even though it's an off day, I still eat clean, I just eat less and don't worry about the times of the day. I still experience these feelings even after getting 7-8 hours of sleep the night prior. 

15 hours ago, Ian Howard said:

Maybe I'm just crying about something that I'm meant to endure.

Welcome to life.

Sleep more, eat a fourth meal.

17 hours ago, Ian Howard said:

 

At what point does the body turn away from glycogen stores in the body and begin breaking down muscle tissue?

I don't see this happening with the metabolic flexibility found in Thrive 1.  Here's just a guess for fun: Jeff will call it BS if I'm wrong.

There is adequate protein in the meals throughout the day, so why would the body want to eat its own muscle? (This is the easiest guess without getting into the possible science specifics) such as:

It seems the body gets the fat burning, metabolic flexible part of the daily flow where it is inclined to use fat for fuel and new glucose via fatty acids.  With this metabolic flexibility, it seems the body is set up for using fat and glucose, possibly early AM ketones when waking up, then later on quality starches, along with glycogen stores, for nice fuel with afternoon workouts.  With all these options of fuel, maybe the body would not want to use a less efficient process of breaking down muscle, striping the backbone off an amino acid, converting that into glucose for energy.  That would suck if the body chose that later route for a Foundation session.   

3 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Sleep more, eat a fourth meal.

I've recently started the fourth meal plan and love it. I eat a fourth meal between lunch and dinner (about 4PM for me). A snack just wasn't cutting it to tide me over.

A small meal is just the trick, though, especially on the days when I have an activity right after work and won't be able to eat dinner until 8PM or later.

Fair enough. When my body began to feel weird in the afternoons, I started to think about some of the guys at work who always eat something every 2-3 hours to fuel the body. Different programs, different goals, no problem. I also know hunger/fasting/long times between meals are very survivable, but questioned whether I am inhibiting my ability to recover and grow. Or, in my particular case where I am probably awake more than average (just guessing), did I need to make special adjustments?

Jeff, I really hate to sound complicated, but lets say I eat around 5:00-6pm to keep the energy flowing, what should it consist of? (I realised last night that dinner can sometimes end up being as late as 9:30-10pm when I work late.) I certainly would like to get advice on this now, but I'm also curious if these are meal adjustments we might be covering more specifically in Thrive 2?

Ian, I'm no Jeff, but I've seen him say elsewhere on the forum that his fourth meal (before dinner) is the same as his lunch but a half portion. 

48 minutes ago, Ryan Bailey said:

I don't see this happening with the metabolic flexibility found in Thrive 1.  Here's just a guess for fun: Jeff will call it BS if I'm wrong.

There is adequate protein in the meals throughout the day, so why would the body want to eat its own muscle? (This is the easiest guess without getting into the possible science specifics) such as:

It seems the body gets the fat burning, metabolic flexible part of the daily flow where it is inclined to use fat for fuel and new glucose via fatty acids.  With this metabolic flexibility, it seems the body is set up for using fat and glucose, possibly early AM ketones when waking up, then later on quality starches, along with glycogen stores, for nice fuel with afternoon workouts.  With all these options of fuel, maybe the body would not want to use a less efficient process of breaking down muscle, striping the backbone off an amino acid, converting that into glucose for energy.  That would suck if the body chose that later route for a Foundation session.   

I have no idea how long it takes for the body to digest foods or pick and choose between what we eat and what is already present. I'm sure there are extremes where some people's bodies act outside the norm. I wasn't sure, so I asked. I certainly didn't intend to sound ignorant or argumentative (complaining). lol Thanks for the discussion. You definitely make a strong point here. 

Thanks, Julia! I would have never found that lol

Good advice above and Ryan hit the nail on the head. Ian, you can make it a small meal or simple fruit, nuts, cheese, cured meats type finger foods. Doesn't have to be a formal meal. Ideally have some form of protein, carb and fat if possible, if not do your best. 

Thanks, everyone for your responses! I prefer to ensure I'm doing the right things in line with "Thrive" philosophy versus any old regimen that just seems convenient. I'm really glad this program became available and I promote it 110%. Cheers