Breakfast timing

What's best? Eat that breakfast before or after early morning workout? If workout is first meal, are you guys drinking only water? Nothing more?

Strme, if you can adjust your workout time later that would be preferable, if you cant then my answer is "it depends" on 

1) If you eat first how long do you give to digest your food?

2) If you train first how long before you eat?

Assuming the intent of training is to develop relative strength via cross sectional growth and neurological efficiency(primary) you have to accept that is going to happen at a slower rate early in the day. My definition of early is 0400-0600, if your a hippie and early is 0900 then disregard. 

Jj, before 6.00 ,i walking to my gym 50minutes ,need to eat something small(what?) i working out between 6.00-9.00. And eating right after(its going to be eggs or jogurt?) I am not sure if this is fine. What would be best?

What is your suggestion?

thanks

You workout before 6am and it takes you 50 minutes to walk to the gym? 

You workout for 3 hours (6-9)?

Eat right after?

Can you clarify I have the above right? 

Yes its true. Real training takes like 2-2,5 hour.

Im not doubting you. I was just having trouble understanding your post and to answer you correctly I need to know exactly what you were saying. 

If It takes you 50 min to walk to the gym I would eat something before staring that walk and I would eat something when you get back. You don't have to eat two full size meals but I would try to eat before that 50 min walk. 

Ok. Should we just play with protein fat breakfast every time yes? spliting breakfast witch we learn here? For example in my case- Half before walk and half after that walk?

What i understand, it is better to eat protein ,fat breakfast before workout? What will be post workout meal than?

Strme,

At this step it only requires that you add a heathy fat to breakfast. If you would like to make it a protein and fat meal before training then great but you don't have to. You don't have to eat half meals, eating a full breakfast 1hr before your morning 06-09 training is probably most optimal and if it takes you another 50 min to walk home your are almost at lunch time so you may as well eat lunch

0445 - Wake up, eat breakfast, get ready for gym

0510-0600 - Transit to gym

06-0900 - Training

09-0950 - Transit to house

1000 - 5 hours after you ate breakfast, time for lunch!

uuf ,that is nice explanation starting from tommorow. 

and Jeff , i said earlier that i must wait with more questons ,but. i need to ask .do we going to discuss postworkout food? i am really stoked for this. like to know your opinion. 

thanks a lot

Strme,

Im glad I could help. For you post workout is lunch. Due to the amount of time that elapses between your pre and post workout feeding I think they both need to be full on meals. A full breakfast at 0445 before your walk and a full lunch at 1000 - 5 hours later. If were looking to add something to that maybe a small easy digesting something at the 1/2 way point of your workout. 

A follow up on this one if I can.

I'm in a similar situation with works outs. depending on the day of the week my day starts at 5 or 6am and straight into a workout. when I'm doing foundation work (F7 2 days a week Mon and Fri) I'll wake at 6, work out for around 1.5 hours then I am usually on my bike to ride to work, it's around 12km in 25mins.While there are strenuous parts of the ride its a fairly easy ride, heart rate would rarely push past 135bpm. On the other days its two days of stretching/yoga and handstand work and the final day is some bridge and movement work and a fairly intense kung fu work out. then once I've finished work I need to ride home.

I had previously been to a sports nutritionist/dietician who had advised for performance pre workout 1 pieces of bread with 1 tbsp honey and a banana and protein shake with full cream milk post the workout but before the ride, then once at work 3 eggs on toast or porridge ( 1 cup) made with water plus a handful of sultanas plus 200g greek yoghurt.

I am currently having a protein shake made with coconut milk and water in between the workout and the ride, and then breakfast (usually eggs or greek yogurt mixed with cottage cheese) once I get to work after about 20-30 mins, so around 730.  Lunch follows around 11.30/12 depending on hunger and meetings. Eating after the workout but before the ride is a bit tight for time but I could have something small, eating after the ride is far better. Any need for carbs here given the workout length?

If you were to do the outlined day and skip the carbs it would force your body to use fats as fuels. AKA burn body fat. If you really feel the need for carbs I would stay away from pro inflammatory ones (bread) fructose (honey) and I would go for something like oatmeal. But, at this point you are loosing many benefits so it better be worth it. 

8 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

If you were to do the outlined day and skip the carbs it would force your body to use fats as fuels. AKA burn body fat. If you really feel the need for carbs I would stay away from pro inflammatory ones (bread) fructose (honey) and I would go for something like oatmeal. But, at this point you are loosing many benefits so it better be worth it. 

not sure I feel the need for carbs now having spent some time away from carbs in the AM. I can only describe the symptoms... I went to the dietitian to maximise performance and ensure a speedy recovery. I want to operate as optimally as possible, can't tolerate performance dips.   I found the amount of food and particularly the carbs around the workout meant I wasn't quite as sore later in the day/next day but also it was too much and concentration at work was down.

With the right amounts of food in the AM excluding carbs, and the right amount of carbs later in the day combines with decent sleep it seems to be better balanced and works more naturally with my lifestyle.  I'm not sure I've experienced significant benefits to including carbs pre/post workouts in the AM, but equally I'm not sure I've yet experienced significant benefits from avoiding them...perhaps its just memories of the past coloured by a view of the present, and/or the time to adjust to a new routine. slow change can often be viewed as no change for the person experiencing the change. no carbs in the AM it is, I'm happy with that.

Very good point! "slow change can often be viewed as no change for the person experiencing the change."

Do keep in mind, nothing is optimal about workout first thing in the AM. Look at all olympic caliber teams and pro athletes. Very few work out that early. Im sure you do it for scheduling reasons but thought I'd throw it out there.

absolutely a PM workout is better. feels better (less tight) but I have 3 young kids and a full time job to deal with. a PM workout becomes a very variable thing and often loses out to household chores and kids appointments. If I can I will but it usually becomes an 'extra' workout at lower intensity working movement and skill based work because I don't have an hour and a half to have a focussed session. scheduling is a pain. if only I could find the need (because it is a choice and its more a matter of prioritising) to get out of the office...but the job pays for the lifestyle while taking away from what is optimal.

I wanted to ask what is the recommended/optimal time window to eat breakfast in general (I usually don't do any workout in the morning). Hour, hour and a half after the wake-up? I understand that the logic is not to delay too much, but I want to be sure how relaxed or strict I should be. From time to time I have a habit to drink coffee in the morning with some butter and when eat breakfast after ~two hours. Wonder if I have to change that.

[sorry if the question was answered already somewhere]

I would say you want to eat breakfast within a hour of waking. Deepening on how much butter your ruin your coffee with it may buy you that extra hour. 

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 9:36 AM, Jeff Serven said:

Strme, if you can adjust your workout time later that would be preferable, if you cant then my answer is "it depends" on 

1) If you eat first how long do you give to digest your food?

2) If you train first how long before you eat?

 

Assuming the intent of training is to develop relative strength via cross sectional growth and neurological efficiency(primary) you have to accept that is going to happen at a slower rate early in the day. My definition of early is 0400-0600, if your a hippie and early is 0900 then disregard. 

@JeffServen thank you for this helpful feedback. I have completed the Thrive program and am reviewing further the content of these forum subtopics. Based on your comments about morning workouts not being optimal, I will shift my training time to the afternoon.

I did want to ask about early morning workouts since I was encouraged by one of Coach Sommer's podcasts where he said he has his "morning workout for breakfast" I think around 0400. I don't recall if he mentions doing that on a fast or if he has a meal first. Assuming a GST athlete has no other option that day but to get up first thing in the morning and train within the first hour upon waking up, do you have suggestions on what the athlete should do pre-workout? I have seen some althetes on the forum speak about pre-workout "BCAAs on a fast." I respect that you are reserving the topic of supplements for Thrive 2, but I raise it in case you are willing to address pre-workout BCAA's in whatever way you find appropriate in this thread. Looking forward to your feedback.

Carlo, 

Congrats on completing Thrive! 

Training in the AM is perfectly fine. What Ive said is I would train and skip the high carb PWO shake. 

I intentionally don't get into Pre and Post. Saving it for later...sorry. 

On the note of "fasted BCAA"...ummm...poor logic and understanding. Unless you are a 200 pound man and you take less than 10g of BCAA it is taking you out of the "fast". Amigos can easily be converted to glucose in that situation in which you may as well had carbs.  Im not saying BCAA are bad Im saying that taking BCAA thinking your fasting is wrong. Not that you asked about that but figured I would add it. 

Hope this helps 

Thank you Jeff for your reply and your comment on amino acids is also very helpful. Fully noted - BCAAs/amino acids in the morning might as well be considered carb/starch consumption in the morning . . .which would interfere with that pre-lunch fat burning state we seek to be in by using only protein and fats as morning fuel.

I confess I made the mistake of equating amino acids with full proteins, and this can perhaps explain why for part of my Thrive experience, I would be craving starches or lunch a little earlier than the 4-5 hour post-breakfast window if I consumed BCAAs in the morning.

Trying to follow the logic in other Thrive forum threads, it looks the advice was that I can "buy myself" another hour or so before I have a full breakfast if I can have a small amount of fat and/or protein when I first awaken. I noticed other athletes on the forum referenced consuming morning butter or heavy cream in their morning hot drink, and I assume a small portion of salmon/meat I assume would also work.  

However, what do you think of consuming - by itself - two cups of turkey or chicken bone broth with zero carbs, 35 calories and 9 grams of protein at 0630 with a full breakfast of fat and protein following about 90 minutes later around 0800? For example, Whole Foods sells a Pacific Organic Bone Broth, USDA Organic label, with 9 grams of protein per 8 FL OZ (organic ingredients: Turkey / Chicken stock, onion, cider vinegar, rosemary extract). Does the liquid state of the protein in the bone broth make it susceptible to breaking down faster like an amino acid? Thank you for the assistance in helping us further fine tune our application of the Thrive 1 concepts.