Discarding some foundation exercices ?

Hello to all,

I SWEAR I did an unsuccessful one hour research before this topic. Despite that my question is simple, it's this one:

I'm only interested in strength conditioning rather than skill. To focus/save some time for real life reasons I try to discard some exercices of the foundation serie. As I don't aim to master gymnast skill, is it wise ? Will it create imbalances ? Is the foundation serie made to do all of them ?

C. Sommer said that the biggest bang for the buck is the handstand press. From the foundation serie, what are the biggest bang for the buck exercices ?

Best 2016

James

Hello. No, it's not wise...

Foundation main purpose is not intended to teach us gymnastics ”skills" and the course should give us a perfect balance of strength, flexibility, mobility, etc, I can't list all the several benefits it includes to do all of it. 

If you skip some elements it may indeed create imbalances and the series is perfectly integrated to be done as a whole.

There are several athletes who could already perform the final "skills" like planche or rope climbing but fail at initial progressions exactly because of imbalances and lack of proper preparation/conditioning. Foundation should give you a proper holistic and comprehensive preparation as it is, with all its elements. It's totally intelligent and interconnected and excluding a part is asking for an injury. "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link", so Foundation works all of them. If you keep strengthening only what you want or pleases you, you'll remain with weak points that the course so clearly reveals.

^ You're likely to throw out the elements that are most difficult for you, and in doing so you will miss the opportunity to work on your weak sides - Sides that you probably do not realise are holding you back.

Strength is a skill.

What exercises were you considering skipping? I can't really think of anything in Foundation that is only skill. Moreover the series is designed as a set of progressions to be done in tandem, not a library of exercises to select from. Picking and choosing exercises negates half the point of using the courses.

Other than eventually the Hollowback Press requiring a handstand there's really not much in terms of skill in Foundation series. 

I've wondered about some of the RC progressions. Naners and pull overs are surely a skill?

You're asking for a trouble, my friend.

In my opinion, none of the elements in Foundation series are a skill work until you do not posses strength required to perform every each of them with a top quality.

To answering your last question (again, my point of view) they all are of this kind because they're all a must as is HS, as is pHS.

I wish you to enjoy every piece of Foundation course, even if it is not comfortable for you

Well... he can't see this topic here without a purchase, so perhaps specific Foundation elements shouldn't have been brought into this thread....

Which do you leave out?

More than likely you will miss the one that has most benefit. I am surprised at the exercises that do make the world of difference for me are the ones I would not have done. Not because they looked difficult, rather I thought they would not be that beneficial.

Murray Truelove said:

I've wondered about some of the RC progressions. Naners and pull overs are surely a skill?

I don't think so. I'm not there yet in terms of RC progressions, but I wasn't able to do any of that before starting foundation but now I can without training for that. I believe I got it due to spending a lot of time on the rowing progressions in RC where I was weak and some was the Hollow Holds in FL for being able to get my legs up and around the bar (and because Hollow Holds are awesome and make you more awesome even though I hate doing them).

dritar said:

I don't think so. I'm not there yet in terms of RC progressions, but I wasn't able to do any of that before starting foundation but now I can without training for that. I believe I got it due to spending a lot of time on the rowing progressions in RC where I was weak and some was the Hollow Holds in FL for being able to get my legs up and around the bar (and because Hollow Holds are awesome and make you more awesome even though I hate doing them).

What I was getting at is that after building up strength using rows and and preparing the elbow with chin hangs I could already do a rope climb. I was thinking, after the F2 material (which I won't list as we're in the wrong forum) I'm tempted to just do weighed chin ups/pull ups instead of the more complicated course material.

In my opinion, I wouldn't skip them, without atleast testing the mastery. It's multi plane pulling, it helps being proficient with it. I don't think the RC progressions are strictly linear. I mean, I once tested to try to climb a pole without using legs and I could but I couldn't do an L-chin up (I haven't tried it lately though). I don't think it's just raw pulling strength, but also having all around pulling strength in more complex positions. 

That said if you want to do weighted chin ups, I can't see why not if it doesn't detract from the focus of your training. I would advise adding some extra mobility to balance them though.

To answer your question, the most "bang for your buck" exercises for strength conditioning are the final Specific Elements and mobilities for all of the exercises in each series. That being said, there is a glaring caveat that everyone has already touched on: being able to do the final mobility and specific element means diddly if there are earlier elements and progressions which you cannot do. I've contemplated taking your route, too. But, honestly, making haste slowly brings you the most reward and skipping elements will only result in you either quitting GB or eating humble pie after recognizing that your attempt to supplement certain exercises was stupid.

As proof of my point, I've had incessant trouble with my shoulder mobility and strength over the past year, which has led to issues performing HS/PE1>im, HBP/PE1>im, and RC/PE1, however after a year of dicking around "fixing" my rotator cuff issues, I finally saw a PT who explained that while I was doing good things trying to fix my shoulder issues in my rotator cuff I was working on the wrong part of my shoulder. All my issues were stemming from lacking thoracic mobility. In the week since I've started working my thoracic mobility -- ta da -- no more shoulder pain and am making marked progress on exercises which involve shoulders after a year of inconsistency progress (sPL, RC, HS, and HBP). My point is this, there are likely imbalances you are not even aware of unless you are a rather advanced athlete/gymnast, and skipping or eliminating elements will only make these anatomical blindspots and imbalances bigger. The logic and progression behind all of the progressions are the most detailed and best explained out there (I've checked). So, if you plan to stick with bodyweight movements and want to increase strength conditioning I suggest that you don't remove exercises you see as skill but perhaps look to performing your routines in the 'F7' format, which will increase your work capacity and are likely the best damned conditioning routine you could come across. 

Cheers.