Twisting squat

Hi all, 

Just joined this forum today but have been following the forum discussions for quite some time now and the community is awesome. 

I have a quick question, what's the purpose of the twisting squat as a mobility exercise. 

I couldn't find any information/references on the internet or on the GST forums. 

Thanks in advance for your replies,

Brian

Besides for benefits of medial/lateral knee connective tissue awesomeness, here`s another reason: Longevity.

Check out Coach`s insightful facebook post recently

https://www.facebook.com/GymnasticBodies/posts/1141360102554355

Ryan

Most people do not realise the value of this program. If you could just maintain the twisting squat through your life. It shows that you have strong muscles, good bone density, mobile hips and knees, good balance, good circulation and the ability to get off the floor. I have many patients who struggle to get off the floor. Little do they realise they have one foot in the grave.

Mark Collins said:

Most people do not realise the value of this program. If you could just maintain the twisting squat through your life. It shows that you have strong muscles, good bone density, mobile hips and knees, good balance, good circulation and the ability to get off the floor. I have many patients who struggle to get off the floor. Little do they realise they have one foot in the grave.

Very well said, Mark.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I'm gutted, I've been told not to do any lateral or twisting leg training as I've had trouble with my knees lately, and now waiting for an ACL reconstruction. Used to love leg training but now I can't do anything with my knees burning or grinding and feeling like crap for days after

- wait till after the ACL reconstruction.

- begin training all movement from an extremely limited ROM.  For example working only from standing to sitting onto a bar stool.

- do not train thru pain.  do not train intensely.  no grinding.  

I do not have the link in front of me, however a forum member with much more severe knee surgeries than yours rehabbed his knees completely with the above approach.  Note that he spent over a year patiently rebuilding his knees.

Prior to the his implementing the GB knee series, all of the traditional knee rehab prescribed to him by his physical therapist had failed him in terms of reducing pain and allowing him to regain some degree of mobility.  He was therefore ecstatic with the results of the GB knee series.

Ironically when he showed them how he had rebuilt his knees, they immediately told him to stop.  Their protocols failed.  Another protocol succeeded.  And yet their were so wed to dogma that they wouldn't even investigate and test an alternative approach.  Idiots.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Did a search for twisting squat and found this post, so I figured this was a good spot to ask.

This movement seems to be causing my left knee discomfort a day or so afterwards. I do have minor balance issues rising and sitting and have placed a bench in front of me to perform the movement. However, even though I cut the number of reps to match the number of PE reps (currently 5 sets of 2), I'm still experiencing discomfort in my knee. I don't mean the "my knee is sore from working out", but more of a "hey my knee should not feel like this". Am I experiencing some kind of weakness in my knee? I don't feel any grinding when rising or sitting.

Only just noticed your reply coach. Will wait till after surgery like you say and keep on with the other 6 elements. Thanks.

4 hours ago, Joel Alambra said:

Did a search for twisting squat and found this post, so I figured this was a good spot to ask.

This movement seems to be causing my left knee discomfort a day or so afterwards. I do have minor balance issues rising and sitting and have placed a bench in front of me to perform the movement. However, even though I cut the number of reps to match the number of PE reps (currently 5 sets of 2), I'm still experiencing discomfort in my knee. I don't mean the "my knee is sore from working out", but more of a "hey my knee should not feel like this". Am I experiencing some kind of weakness in my knee? I don't feel any grinding when rising or sitting.

If the bench is too high, then perhaps begin with a bar stool.  Regardless, the height of where you start is unimportant, reducing R.O.M. until you are pain free is.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I don't notice any pain during the movement and I haven't ruled out the actual PE as the issue either. When you say reducing the ROM, does that mean I only stand up part way, or start standing and partially sit down? Do you think the being more proficient in side splits would help? I do have bad flexibility when it comes to that. Thanks Coach

- start standing and partially sit down

- side splits have no bearing on this issue

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

What is the gb knee series mentioned above? Is it a collection of the PE's and iM's from Foundation?

The SLS iM in F1&2

Hi All,

I had a knee reconstruction in my left knee Jan 2014. They used titanium screws, and a piece of my hamstring to reconstruct the ACL. I also had a meniscal tear that they had cut/cleaned out in the same knee.

I started GB training , around September 2014 according to my progress spreadsheet. And made some decent progress til March 2015 when I stopped.

I noticed after doing cossack squats, the next day - my left knee would have a really intense sharp pain when I walked, enough to make me limp. It would subside after a few days. The pain was enough to make me stop doing cossack squats after a while.

I really want to get my legs strong, but am not sure how to handle my knee injury / rehabilitation in the context of GB training. Surgeon said to avoid twisting motions with my knee. 

My right knee is starting to have issues now - fat pad behind patella tendon getting caught in the joint.

I had been training in Brazilian Jujitsu for the last 9 months, and no GB training.

Am about to start training GB again, keen to be able to do Single Legged squats in the long run, but am unsure how to proceed given my present condition.

Anyone here faced similar issues , and overcome or found a workaround ?

Cheers and Regards,

Mish

51 minutes ago, Michael Sharoglazov said:

Surgeon said to avoid twisting motions with my knee. 

This instruction by health care professionals guarantees an injury down the line to the surgical limb.

One day the joint is 100% likely to twist; and then guess what happens when it is not prepared. You have to be very smart about this as you can also do damage by rushing or going to low too quickly.

Never train through pain. If the exercises caused pain to the point of limping, they were done incorrectly. Only work in pain free range. Form checks will be crucial for you in order to get any appropriate feedback.

4 hours ago, Michael Sharoglazov said:

I had been training in Brazilian Jujitsu for the last 9 months, and no GB training.

 

Wait, you had/have been training BJJ for the past 9 months and are worried that GB is going to put undue strain on your knee?!

i don't want to come off like a jerk, but BJJ is going to put infinitely more rotational strain (and many times you will have no control over what degree or amount) than GB will if performed intelligently. And, because of this fact, exercises like twisting squats, inside squats, skiers, etc...are actually of even more importance to you. You need to make your knees as strong as possible when they are not in good alignment (rotated, collapsed in, etc...) if you want to have the best chances of avoiding injury.

If your sport of choice was something very linear and controlled (like archery), then sure, I would say maybe you could make an argument for avoiding any rotational knee strengthening. But again, with a sport as unpredictable as grappling/BJJ (where the goal is many times to purposely take the joints into their weakest ROM and take them past their comfortable range) it's not a matter of if your knees will be under rotational stress, it's a matter of when.

Like Coach and Mark (a physical therapist) said above, many doctors and PT's blindly follow a dogmatic belief that the joints MUST always be kept in "proper" alignment during exercise or else injury is a foregone conclusion, not realizing that this in fact greatly increases their predisposition to injury when they inevitably get taken out of that "proper" alignment.

Decrease ROM (no matter how little that might be to begin with) until there is no pain and then gradually increase ROM over the coming months until you can perform the movements with full ROM without pain.

Hi Mish, 

Ryan is spot on. It sounds like you may have progressed too fast after your surgery. I’m not understanding how you managed doing BJJ, which potentially has so many twisting motions! Maybe a case of "too much, too soon” (?)

As far as your surgeon's comment about avoiding twisting motions with your knee, although it may have been well intended it’s certainly misleading and bothers ignorance. Look at it this way: 

Life is going to twist your knee. Period. 

When your reach back with your arm behind you, you knees twists; when you lean to the side to grab your kid or pet your dog, your knees twists, etc.

If you don’t train to expose the receptors in your knees to get used to multiple twisting motions and forces in different angles, then when you do it in real life, bam, you may not be ready for that motion! This is how many ACL injuries occur, from a simple Salsa step, getting off your bike, or the straw that broke the camel's back. The stupidest thing! The answer is never to "don’t twist your knee." It should be: 

Train it to twist.

Train it slowly, incrementally and with caution, until it can gradually achiever more ROM and take stronger loads. How else are you going to strengthen your connective tissue without movement, eh?? 

13 hours ago, Michael Sharoglazov said:

Am about to start training GB again, keen to be able to do Single Legged squats in the long run, but am unsure how to proceed given my present condition.

In addition to what Coach and Ryan already said, I’d try performing the SLS elements MOVING SLOWLY so you have time to feel what goes on in the joint. Training pain-free in whatever ROM you have available now.

Hi Ryan, Keegan and Eva,

Thanks for your feedback

Just to clarify, I had given my knee maybe a year and a half to recover from surgery before starting BJJ. I kept active during that time with lots of cycling, hiking and some weights. I started Gymnastic Bodies perhaps 9 months in after the reconstruction. Then lost motivation for 3 or so months, then started BJJ - which has been great fun, and no reported issues with my knee.

It seems that some specific movements trigger my left knee pain, I just need to work out what it is and why.

I will investigate this again, post some videos, and observe whats happening.

My takeaways from all your comments are:

Go slowly
Don't train through pain
Record my movements for analysis (i'll upload it for feedback)
Monitor results
I acknowledge that this is a gradual process, so will carefully adjust until I get the right balance.
I whole heartedly agree with the comments about conditioning knees to handle twisting etc. 
Makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks team.

Hi Michael,

One of our Instructors at Forma who is of course also a GB student, also had reconstructive surgery on his right ACL last year. He had torn the ACL some 3 years prior, managed to get by but then twisted his knee playing basketball (2015) at which point I told him to get the op! ACL harvested from his hamstring also and looking at him now you would never know. 

He has his SLS x5 on both legs and interestingly, it is his hamstring that is holding him back the most  

Where they harvested from the hamstring tendon, it obviously weakened that tendon significantly. So we have held him on Shoulder Bridge Leg curls (this progression would hurt) for the last 8 months to help strengthen that hamstring until no difference is felt between left and right. Now he's ready to move forward and start Single Leg Shoulder Bridge Curls. I mention this as it is hardly mentioned to consider the hamstring after ACL repair in terms of it's strength.

Although you will start at PE1 & iM 1 for SLS, I would recommend also performing 1-2 sets of PE2 & 3 with iM's as a rehab protocol. These combined will place your knee through controlled rotations, medial and lateral deviations, make sure the ankles are working with the knees and hips also.

Reduce the range of motion until no pain is felt for all of the progressions (for cossack squats simply don't squat as deep and make sure the squatting leg has knee and foot aligned).

Go slow also means complete a training session at reduced depth and wait to see how the knees feel over the next few days, as pain due to connective tissue irritations often arise a day or 2 after the source of irritation due to their reduced blood supply and thus slower inflammatory rate.

Hi Wesley,

Great advice there. Interesting that its his hamstring holding him back, the doctors down played that aspect of the operation. Very heartening to see that he can do these movements now.

Just out of interest, where do I get access to the Knee Series - and is this appropriate for me to start doing - or is Knee Series for later down the track ?

1-2 sets of PE2 & 3 with iM's as a rehab protocol  - OK I'll check this out and give it a go.

Essentially this is what I am after - some safe rehab work to make the connective tissues stronger.

Cheers

Mish

2 hours ago, Michael Sharoglazov said:

 

Just out of interest, where do I get access to the Knee Series - and is this appropriate for me to start doing - or is Knee Series for later down the track ?

 

The knee series is basically the SLS iM's in Foundation 1 & 2.