Piriformis

Where is this stretch supposed to be felt (yes, I know it's supposed to be felt in the piriformis and where the piriformis is anatomically)? I ask that, because in the process of working this element I've dialed it back, used a block, tried to get my knee on the ground but I'm not sure exactly how the stretch is supposed to be felt and tried to switch my positioning around but don't seem to be able to get this specific muscle stretched effectively. Given that a "fake" piriformis stretch is what I'm used to, that's what Coach says is what is not to be strived for, but that is when I've felt it most in my piriformis. When doing the element as I think to bOrench etc are performing the stretch (torso upright, back leg extended and straight, bent leg angled with the knee elevated and both legs parallel). I'm having trouble understanding how to situate my body to feel this stretch the most. Also, another issue is that after the MSs my glutes are often very sore/tense. I figure this is just from all the darned hip stretches that I'm doing. Anyways, insight on this would be appreciated.

Unrelatedly, I was able to get my forearms with hands flat on the ground in pancake and could grab my foot in the pancake shoulder which is NOICE!  Is the pancake shoulder supposed to give a bit of a lat stretch, because wow! 

Anyways, back to week 1 next week and am feeling stronger and more mobile than ever.

For me it's most important to get that 90/90 angle in the front leg and lower into the stretch rather than rolling over the side. If I don't keep this quite precise or enter it differently, it takes the stretch out of the piriformis (and I know when this happens because my ROM is much larger).

Congrats on the pancake progress

Hmm, I'll give it a go at some point tonight or tomorrow to see if I can get into it. So, to be clear, you mean 90/90 in the lower and upper leg that is trying to stretch the piriformis and then you lower down without go to either side. May take a little figuring. It's been a process but hoping that it'll help my MN/PE2 still got some ROM to go before I can progress up blocks.

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

Hmm, I'll give it a go at some point tonight or tomorrow to see if I can get into it. So, to be clear, you mean 90/90 in the lower and upper leg that is trying to stretch the piriformis and then you lower down without go to either side. May take a little figuring. It's been a process but hoping that it'll help my MN/PE2 still got some ROM to go before I can progress up blocks.

Yes, that's right.

And keep your hips square! You'll know when you get it

A-ha. Yeah, okay. I just dropped into it and felt it. Safe to say I'd been doing it wrong thus far. But gotta start somewhere.

can anybody share a quick photo from above to show the correct leg position?  I'm really struggling with the periformis stretch myself.

For a good involvement the heel of the front leg should be place approximately centered with the navel (or if you want the line that divide the body into 2 left and right ), for an optimal work you can move externally the leg of 8-10cm so that the heel is shifted from the navel.

thanks for that.  I've been getting my ankle in line with my "center line", but so far have seen ZERO progress compared to the rest of the series.

15 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

For a good involvement the heel of the front leg should be place approximately centered with the navel (or if you want the line that divide the body into 2 left and right ), for an optimal work you can move externally the leg of 8-10cm so that the heel is shifted from the navel.

 

is it consistent with the mss video ? itryed the 8-10 and felt much more stretch than before

sensation and level of hips flexor mobility play a big role, also it is a stronger variation that needs at least a minimum of flexibility, it promotes a strong hips capsule stretch and you should be csreful. I would not suggest it if you are feeling stretch in the normal version. Course is constructed for the general public who usually is extremely tight in this region. So if you are playing with the course position since 6-8 months then try this one. If not follows the course.

To be more precise:

-piriformis should be stretched with the pose presented in the course and it is necessary for certain element in the mss where there is a partial squat pose and in pancake variation. piriformis has 2 behaviors , in of of those , it tends to work as a medial rotator of the knees especially when the hips angle is strongly reduced like in pancake. in fact tight piriformis shows internal upper leg rotation during wide pancake

-working with leg outside the medial line of the body involves more the glutes. if they are very tight it is less possible to explore completely the posterior capsule joint. 

IN simple words: for pancake you need flexible piriformis. for middle split you need full released hip capsule. do both because they are not an alternative.

43 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

To be more precise:

-piriformis should be stretched with the pose presented in the course and it is necessary for certain element in the mss where there is a partial squat pose and in pancake variation. piriformis has 2 behaviors , in of of those , it tends to work as a medial rotator of the knees especially when the hips angle is strongly reduced like in pancake. in fact tight piriformis shows internal upper leg rotation during wide pancake

-working with leg outside the medial line of the body involves more the glutes. if they are very tight it is possible to explore completely the posterior capsule joint. 

IN simple words: for pancake you need flexible piriformis. for middle split you need full released hip capsule. do both because they are not an alternative.

for your 1st reply i have been doing for nearly 6 months and i feel like its much easier now , for the 2nd one if i understand both in the mss video and the picture u described are necessary for a better MS and Pancake ? 

thank you

They really really help. Personally for me I spent thousand hours on piriformis and now my legs start  to stay neutral during compression. 

I had a problem in one of my adductor and I was forced to stay away from any type of straddle variation, also sitting on the sofa was painful ( I had a serious injury due to a vault). So I had this situation for 2 years. in this period my posterior capsule became so tight that i cannot describe. Now i'm healed but I passed the biggest amount of time on recovering my normal hip capsule range of motion.

If you are fine with course variation, it's good. try also the other variation. if you are suffering...spend sometime here. It is always about cure your weak point.

yesterday i tried it and its realy different

one more question i was gonna ask in an other topic since we are talking about capsule, the issue of MS with knees facing forward that implicates the capsule to touch the Hip and by that there wont be 180 degree (with 90 degree the torso will be curved) can it be fixed with this stretch with time ?

thanks a lot for your clarification 

It depends:

-if from standing position you can externally rotate one leg and lift it at 90°, you have full possibility of full split

-if you cannot and you can feel pain you have hips genetic variation but it is very rare.

What you are describing it is a typical situation where capsule range of motion was not explored for a long time, maybe 20-25 years. I experiment this sensation everytime I add 1 cm of depth in my split, but it is fine. i know that is not a genetic limitation. ideally you need to measure the 180° considering the outer part of the pelvis and not the inner, because hips bones limitation. if you consider the inner part it seems to be 180°, while with the outer they are a bit less.

So yes, people normally tend to reach less then 180°, maybe variation from 168° to 174° and the maximum degrees you can obtain with knee facing forward and knee facing upward is the same.

In aerobic gymnastic they tend to call those variations as:

-left: adductors split

-rigth: hamstring split.

people who can show 180° or more....they have a special hips conformation that allows that, like very little kids (but not all, also here there are some variations and there are some stupid gymnastics coaches who try to push past this limit) and sometime men.

this video shows what I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu5lFHmAhKU

Thanks for this Ale, I have found immediate benefit from working this more intense version on the hip capsule

thank you

i still have a vision from my younger age maybe 5 or 6 years old when my coach told me d the splits and opened my legs easely but i cant remember if it was all flat (i think also its from 15 years or more sitting and no mouvement at all  ).

in My MSS i noticed lately that my pelvic is getting stronger in the frog since its the primary (if my guess is correct ) index of Middle split i feel i can pull the pelvic appar even if its little so far .

am curious to know what where your observation and when you noticed a gain in your Middle split (for me i feel the biggest issue is the Hips and i feel it a lot in the frog and the straddle on the floor or on the wall)

If my hips are really tight is this a stretch I could lightly add daily to my limbering routine or post workout stretch to help increase ROM without over doing it?

It depends on the problem. additional stretching mean only the exercise where you feel the biggest part of the tension.

Well it's basically tight hips, lack of ankle mobility, and lack of shoulder mobility. So a little bit of everything, I am just trying to do a little bit extra each day to help limber up. Nothing as intense as the stretch series just basically getting blood flowing and light stretching while warm and sometimes foam rolling.

You can evaluate to take from the different stretch series the exercise where you are more tight and insert into a small extra routine.

For anyone struggling with this. I've found a lot of benefit in my hips (not specifically the piriformis) from the ape crawl and frog hop, which are in other courses. They help the ankle and bottom squat position, which has some transition to hip function and flexibility. The firelog pose from yoga also helps substantially. If you don't know to what I refer, google is your friend in the case, but i'd first scour the forums as their advice will be more vetted.