Protein Shakes

Anybody add protein shakes to their weight loss and muscle building meal plan?

If so, I am curious as to what types for improving performance on a Gymnasticbodies training regime.

Also what macros do you recommend to improve performance specific for someone participating in foundations, movement, handstand, and stretch series?

40C-30P-30F?, 20-20-60?, or higher protein?

Thanks,

Ryan

Do you mean types as in whey vs rice protein etc.? Or what's actually in it? (Powder, fruit, water, etc)

For macros, I've got a long answer if you want it, but the short answer is macros don't decide your meal plan, your meal plan decides your macros.

I don't count macros but I do supplement with protein, I start my day when a shake of 20g protein (vegan blend of pea, hemp and rice), 200g of instant oats and creatine.

I find so long as you're eating enough you don't need to supplement protein too much.

I'm 70kg and only aim for about 100g of protein a day, still made gains and train 6 days a week. This follows a period where I had 160g of protein a day and haven't noticed any negatives.

Jason Dupree said:

Do you mean types as in whey vs rice protein etc.? Or what's actually in it? (Powder, fruit, water, etc)

For macros, I've got a long answer if you want it, but the short answer is macros don't decide your meal plan, your meal plan decides your macros.

Jason,

Yes.... and yes please. I read how one type of powder is not as good for muscle training vs. Another ect.

As far as macros, does any body do this training high fat, ketogenic? Or more balanced carb, protein, and fat?

Also Murray, good insight, thanks.

In general, I think I should get leaner... I am only on RC PE1, but am scared of the 6th element in Coach's Rope Climbing progression ;-(

Ryan Bailey said:

Jason,

Yes.... and yes please. I read how one type of powder is not as good for muscle training vs. Another ect.

(

Well, all protein pretty much does the same thing, but some are better than other. Protein from animals are better than protein from plants and such. What that means in real life I believe is that if you only eat non-animal protein you might need more of it to get the same results as you would from animal protein. Since whey is from milk that counts as animal protein and as such is very good quality.

This applies to real food as well and not just protein powder.

With milk protein, there's also casein vs whey. Casein absorbs slower, and whey quickly. So whey is best post workout. I generally just stick with whey even for non workout shakes. Any type is fine though.

For macros, I generally recommend a balanced diet for everyone. I've had a few clients that do keto, and while I don't think it's the best way to eat, especially for performance, I don't force them to change, just help them eat as healthy as possible within the keto diet. But back on track: a balanced diet. Depending on your size, goals, and activities, your requirements will be different. I'll use myself as an example. I'm 150, active, and I can't eat enough to maintain weight, let alone gain it, which is my goal. So I estimate my needed calories at at least 3000. Then I figure out protein, which I stick with 150ish grams, which is actually the high end. 2.2g/kg or 1g/bw is pretty much the highest effective daily dose, and super easy to surpass. Most people are gonna use that 1g/bw to find their protein. Next is carbs. This can be wildly different depending on person and goals, but for me, 330g. Fat is the rest, at 120g.

So the breakdown:

P - 20%

C - 44%

F - 36%

Very close to 20 40 40. If I lowered my calories to 2800 (still a bit above maintenance, but good for training) the macros change to 21-47-32. Closer to 20-50-30. It would be different I'm sure for Murray, with his lower protein, but it still works for him. So basing a diet off of someone else's macros may work at first if you are starting from nothing, but for performance, figuring out your own needs is the way to go, and your macros are a reflection of that.

I typically don't eat enough, and then sometimes I overeat, lol, graduate school. I use either tera's whey when I'm feeling like whey or something like Raw Meal with is plant-sourced (I waiver between the two). Tera's Whey is organic and from grass-fed cows. There's no real difference, just that sometimes whey protein can leave me a little congested in my sinuses. Alongside I'll add a banana, two scoops of almond/peanut butter, frozen berries, salad greens and/or celery, some grounded greens and flaxseed.

In terms of macros, I eat, however, I just make sure that I try to avoid too many refined carbs, sugars, and fats: pizza, white bread, fast food, twinkies, donuts, etc.; alcohol: crap beers or mixed drinks, etc. Now, not to say I never have any these things I just consciously work to replace them with better options -- richer desserts, homemade burgers, vodka or gin neat. Typically, I'll try to eat as many vegetables, meats, and starches (potatoes, rice, quinoa [sp?], etc) with fruit and dark chocolate as a snack throughout the day. I'm usually under my goals but c'est la vie. 

Also, as I said some days I'm under calorically, some days I'm over. I also often train fasted in the AM, so that it's out of my head -- that's helped me get really lean. I'll have some "bulletproof" coffee or green tea (basically you add a dollop of coconut oil or ghee to your morning mug), that usually gets me through my workout and then I go back to eating however. Hope this gives some insight.

Ok. Here is the breakdown of the meal plan I was given yesterday by a personal trainer. The gentleman is in incredible shape. (Although, yesterday's Foundations workout with me really sucked for him :-).

2600 total calories

50% Protein = 1300 kcals

25% Carbohydrate = 650 kcals

25% Fat = 650 kcals

1300/4 cals/g = 325g/6 meals = 54g/meal

650/4 cals/g = 162g/6 meals = 27g/meal

650/9 cals/g = 72g/6 meals = 8g/meal

Does this make sense?

Well the only possible way to sustain that plan is a ton of chicken and protein powder (because of the low fat and super high protein), hope you like those

Before I start poking holes, did he explain why? As in is the goal muscle gain, cutting, etc? Or is that just what he does?

Jason Dupree said:

Well the only possible way to sustain that plan is a ton of chicken and protein powder (because of the low fat and super high protein), hope you like those

Before I start poking holes, did he explain why? As in is the goal muscle gain, cutting, etc? Or is that just what he does?

CUTTING!

And man, did he get ripped on this.

The stress caused by getting that much protein with every meal would be sufficient to help me lose weight

Like I said, the upper limit for useable protein is 2.2g/kg. The upper limit for health reasons is 2.8g/kg if I remember correctly. Idk how much you or he weighs, but it sounds like it's above that limit. So it's questionable health wise, but also cost wise. Protein is expensive. Not just on the wallet, but for the body. It takes more energy to digest protein than anything else, so much that some say that it's 3 calories per gram instead of 4. So he's taking all that protein he can't use and turning it into sugar, or plain wasting it because it's not absorbed. Not even gonna get into health risks. It's inneficient. Partly why it works for cutting. For a bodybuilder. For someone looking for performance, I'd go more balanced. It's also possible to get as ripped as him on a balanced diet and still be high performance. I'm sure you've heard the physical and mental state competitors are in leading up to the competition. Not pretty.

If you really want to get leaner you can always eat less, drink more water, or cut out starchy carbs and supplement with vegetables and unsaturated fats.

I'd worry more about being consistent with my training and diet than the exact breakdown of every meal. 

You can always make it more complicated in future but at the beginning it's better to make larger, more fundamental, changes; no fizzy drinks, only 1 or 2 cheat meals a month, fruit/veg with every meal, no junk, etc, etc. 

Get a rough meal plan of say 3 meals and 3 snacks (fruit, nuts, yogurt, shake, whatever) that you can realistically keep to, that hits your protein and calories. Follow it for a few weeks and adjust as needed.

That's whey (haha!) too much protein. Start with around 150g if you're cutting, you can always increase it later but I can't ever imagine eating over 300g even on sterioids. 

I agree with Murray. Just broad changes.

Personally, I just try to get at least 30g of proteins every meal, so ~30g protein shake or between 100-150g of the meat/fish, depending on the leanness (I don't measure it now but did at the start, you quickly get the hang of it and sort of always know what you get), and a crapton of fruits/veggies. So, that's 120-150g of proteins, depending on how many meals on a given day. I weigh 74kg. Fats come from the meat/fish, avocados, nuts (not everyday, but quite often), coconut oil. Just water, or maybe tea sometimes, no other type of drink, no junk and that's about it. You can really worry about macros later.

edit: when I think of it, it kinda boils down to a piece of meat covered in veggies in your plate.  You may need a bit more carbs depending on your goals, but you can start with just that and progressively add carbs if you feel like crap.

Jason Dupree said:

Like I said, the upper limit for useable protein is 2.2g/kg. The upper limit for health reasons is 2.8g/kg if I remember correctly. Idk how much you or he weighs, but it sounds like it's above that limit. So it's questionable health wise, but also cost wise. Protein is expensive. Not just on the wallet, but for the body. It takes more energy to digest protein than anything else, so much that some say that it's 3 calories per gram instead of 4. So he's taking all that protein he can't use and turning it into sugar, or plain wasting it because it's not absorbed. Not even gonna get into health risks. It's inneficient. Partly why it works for cutting. For a bodybuilder. For someone looking for performance, I'd go more balanced. It's also possible to get as ripped as him on a balanced diet and still be high performance. I'm sure you've heard the physical and mental state competitors are in leading up to the competition. Not pretty.

I "whey" 86 kg, 5'11" ;-/ I think I gained some sympathy weight while my wife was pregnant. Then after the birth, she lost weight naturally in the first couple days... I didn`t; no fair.

So, I think Jason is suggesting 240g Protein/day for the upper limit.

Even that's pushing it, but basically yea. I can't think of a reason to eat that much though, unless you absolutely love protein and are willing to skirt the line of health risks.

Back in the day, Josh Naterman, the former resident encyclopaedia, mentioned the limit of 2,8g per kg of protein, so the same as Jason. He also mentioned that he did read a few studies that suggested that it really started to be detrimental above 3,something (can't remember). But I agree, 2,8 is already a crapton of proteins and just staying slightly above 2g/kg is more reasonable and more feasible.

Whatever you do, don't buy the "proprietary blend" proteins you find in most stores (or online). They don't have to list what's in them or in what amount.  They are garbage unless proven otherwise.

I create custom blends at www.truenutrition.com

I have no affiliation with them whatsoever besides being a paying customer for the past couple years.

I tend to keep it simple and create a blend that will work anytime, mixing fast, medium and slow absorbing proteins (primarily whey, cassein, egg).  You can also mess around with flavors, but I recommend buying separate containers of the flavoring until you find what you like.  I order my protein blends uflavored/unsweetened and just add what I want (which is usually nothing). 

If you don't want to bother creating your own, search for "Team Skip" on the site.  It's a popular, basic, cost effective blend. 

This link works right now, but if it breaks, just use the search box:  http://truenutrition.com/p-1019-team-skip-formula-1lb-eggmilk.aspx

I just bought and tried Tera's whey protein. It was on the "local food" shelf in the store here in Wisconsin; I figured what the heck.

If you're a right-sized person in an industrialized country you are probably going to be fine on an ordinary diet after adding an hour or two of training 3-4 times/week.  Eating normally according to hunger will naturally provide enough macro/micro nutrients, unless you get to the elite competitive level of your disipline. Although even then the body becomes incredibly efficent at using what it gets.

If you are under or over weight then dietary intervention might be of added benefit.

Still I would agree it can be useful to have a nutrition ritual around training.

It triggers the right attitude for putting in the effort - and the right effort is the overwhelming factor that will lead to improvement.

I've had pretty good results with post-workout guzzling, inhaling and all-around plain-out munching just about everything in sight, with the exception of motor oil, hard liquor, sodas and kittens.

Whether or not a few protein shakes sneaks in there doesn't seem to play as big a role as the overall amount of food and drink consumed. A lot is generally too little, in a PWO scenario 

Ravn said:

I've had pretty good results with post-workout guzzling, inhaling and all-around plain-out munching just about everything in sight, with the exception of motor oil, hard liquor, sodas and kittens.

 

Whether or not a few protein shakes sneaks in there doesn't seem to play as big a role as the overall amount of food and drink consumed. A lot is generally too little, in a PWO scenario 

Sounds like the metabolism of a freakin race horse.

Used to be a hardgainer, lol

Ryan Bailey said:

Sounds like the metabolism of a freakin race horse.

Used to be the definition of a hardgainer, still am to a degree, lol

On 12/8/2015 at 0:57 AM, Ryan Bailey said:

Anybody add protein shakes to their weight loss and muscle building meal plan?

If so, I am curious as to what types for improving performance on a Gymnasticbodies training regime.

Also what macros do you recommend to improve performance specific for someone participating in foundations, movement, handstand, and stretch series?

40C-30P-30F?, 20-20-60?, or higher protein?

Thanks,

Ryan

(I'm a certified personal trainer and certified exercise nutrition coach through Precision Nutrition.  I write this only so that you know I'm not speaking totally off the cuff here.)  When it comes to nutrition for fitness goals, everyone you talk to will recommend something different.  There are a thousand different ways to plan a diet and they'll all work to one degree or another.  I’ve tried a lot of different things over the years for myself and clients and what I’ve found to be most important is to find a style of eating that works with your physiology, that YOU ENJOY, and that you can stick to.

A few tweaks in your portions, limiting processed foods, and upping nutritional quality by consuming a variety of fruits and vegetables (generally a total of 5 cups/day), healthy fats, and quality protein sources at each meal is all you really need.  You can eat 3 meals or 5 smaller meals it's up to you.  Unless you're training to be a bodybuilding competitor, (or you have food sensitivities to work around) the nitty gritty stuff just isn't necessary.  Aim for 85-90% percent of your food consumption to be from nutrient-dense, unprocessed, foods.  If you are trying to lean out, limit carb-dense foods (the starches and grains) to small portions such as a cupped handful and eat them during a meal after you have already exercised.  You can also cycle them by eating them only 2-3 days a week for faster results. 

I always point people to the precisonnutrition.com blog.  It has a ton of free resources to understand nutrition and build your own plan. Just search for a topic.  There are even infographics for just about every common nutrition question or issue as well.  They also have a plate-based style of eating to help you work out the portions you need that works very well - no fuss, no intricate counting.  It works for meat eaters, vegans, athletes, you name it. The information and graphics are all free in their blog.

My recommendation: research, learn, experiment, and follow your gut with what works for you and what feels good to your body.  Find a technique or plan (whether it's counting macros, following a prescribed meal plan or using plate-based portion control, or intermittent fasting) that works with your physiology, that YOU ENJOY, and that you can stick to.

As for protein powders - a person doesn't need processed protein powders to bulk, cut or get ripped and you don't need the excessive amounts of protein that many trainers tell you consume (unless you just enjoy eating a ton of protein - if you do, that's fine too).  Protein powders are expensive and of low quality compared to real food.  Think about it.  We get babies off of formula and eating whole food as quickly as possible.  So why, as an adult, would you go back to consuming formula?  (That's what protein powers are!)  Protein powders were originally intended to be used as a last resort when you didn't have access to real food.  But marketing tactics now tell us we need them to get fit.  It's quite absurd.  

This is just my ‘two cents.’  I'm not looking to make any money off of anyone.  I just want to make it easier for people.