What's a feasible amount of time to achieve a Manna? Given recent progress that I've made I've decided, I want to complete F4, R1, and H3 in 7 years. I figure the time will pass anyway, and that'd be a nice reward to myself for being halfway to 40. I ask about Manna simply because of the 7 elements in Foundations it, to me, seems the most advanced. Right? Wrong?
Time it takes
Started by Daniel Taylor-Shaut, December 4, 2015 · 18 Replies · 2,925 Views
It depends on where you start from and your size and weight. The bigger you are the longer it will take.
Okay, so 5'11, 168lbs and body fat somewhere in the low teens (I don't actually know, because I don't care that much, but my whole midsection is developed and visible without flexing or what have you). I was more thinking in terms of skill, and strength/mobility development how long one could expect to need to work on it. Also, whether the Manna is likely the most advanced of the movements.
As long as it takes...
But I was halfway to forty over 19 years ago...
Lmao, I meant five years to forty 
As in, in seven years I would be 35, and five years away from being 40. I've been doing research all day for finals. My brain is mush.
Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:[...] and that'd be a nice reward to myself for being halfway to 40.
Manna will be the last skill to develop, and it is the hardest out of all of the goals in the Foundation series. It requires a very high amount of strength in an end range of motion, that of which many people don't possess. Very few people have this (full) skill, And those that do, achieved it during Childhood and have retained it ever since. However, even if you do not not achieve a Manna, the path is still very profitable . You will gain a high degree of Shoulder Mobility, Shoulder Strength, and Core Strength. So the benefits of progressing toward this goal are enormous, but as to if it is even achievable is up for debate. Im not even sure if anybody using the GB approach (or any affiliate) has achieved a full manna. So personally I wouldn't even expect to achieve this skill for a very long time, if at all.
Daniel Burnham achieved the manna as an adult with the GB system. It's possible.
Let us not forget that Daniel is probably the most successful GB Athlete, and is very gifted. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but very very hard, and will seek to take a mountain of time to obtain, if possible. Bigger guys, most likely will never achieve this skill. Still, you should work towards it as it will have very good benefits towards one. If expect an average rate of 5-7+ years for a manna. You will probably be on Rings course and have the rest of foundation mastered, and still be on Manna progressions.
Niels Jorgensen started the manna from zero, I met him 2 years ago and he had no idea about "manna".
manna requires years depending on your current flexibility. since I spent the last 4 years unlocking my extension I can consider this process a part of learning manna...so at least....4 years for me.
i thought there were a few peo[ple who are pretty close if not have achieved it already. you can call them all special gfted or talented but when it comes down to it i think one of their main "talents" is they worked hard and were precise and dedicated for a long enough time. for most people that is indeed a special talent.
- Nonsense to those who say it is impossible. They simply have no idea what preparation and progressions are involved.
- This is far more of situation of people simply wanting to jump directly into manna training without first addressing their shoulder extension and hamstring mobility deficits. Of course they fail.
This failure of physical preparation is then further compounded by a complete misunderstanding of how to physically perform the skill; for example insisting on internal shoulder rotation and protraction when in reality mannas are performed with external rotation and retraction.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
I met Niels at seminar in Stroud. I had been following him on his Facebook training page and was impressed. Before I met him I had expected a short guy but boy was I wrong Niels is + 180cm (6 foot) and he is doing HbP, planches, stalder presses and was well ahead on his road to manna. We have to remember that fitness is a life style not a bunch of short term goals. Check out the below link of Niels Manna progress.
hey just a quick question about what coach said about using external rotation for the manna. I have always been told by physios that internal rotation in shoulder extension was the most stable position but then I hear that you must externally rotate for manna. does this mean that the physios were wrong and you should strive for external rotation in shoulder extension?
Yeah, I wasn't under the impression that it's impossible by any means. Hard, yes. Impossible, no. I was just wondering that if I put in the hours and work hard if I could be close to it in that timeframe; or rather what a realistic timeframe would be if I started from zero, was ungifted, but religiously and diligently came in and busted my ass week after week. So, back to the original question,
"What's a feasible amount of time to achieve a Manna?" And, is "completing F4, R1, and H3 in 7 years" possible or an achievable goal? I'm not talking about specifics of bodyweight or work ethic being an issue, could one achieve the Manna in 7 years. Alessandro gave me insight in that he's spent 4 years and is well on his way; further that Niels out of Sweden (??) is also fairly advanced after only a few years.
I am also aware that fitness is a lifestyle, as is anyone who knows me, but it's good to have things to strive for, which is why I came to GB in the first place. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels, literally and figuratively, with WODs and conditioning that may build work capacity but doesn't do anything to develop or ably track progressive improvement or strength, mobility, or flexibility. Who's to say someone couldn't go on towards a high manna? Anyways, thanks Alessandro, Mats, and Coach for getting to heart of my question (though if others want to chime in with precise insight regarding the specific question I asked and not its feasibility-- I'm not here to question whether I can achieve a manna, but how much time it might take to do so and master the foundation and handstand elements. If others have insights on this, then I'm all ears and welcome to it).
ausswe said:hey just a quick question about what coach said about using external rotation for the manna. I have always been told by physios that internal rotation in shoulder extension was the most stable position but then I hear that you must externally rotate for manna. does this mean that the physios were wrong and you should strive for external rotation in shoulder extension?
What does maximum stability have to do with positioning the body correctly for manna work?
This is a only a manna; not a 300lb bench press.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Dylan Robertson said:If expect an average rate of 5-7+ years for a manna.
LOL, in that amount of time some people get to ring maltese, and lets not speek about which is harder.
Thanks. I must've glossed over that bit. Got my five-year plan figure out then, if only somewhat. Off to go get my tumble on now.
Mats Trane said:I met Niels at seminar in Stroud. I had been following him on his Facebook training page and was impressed. Before I met him I had expected a short guy but boy was I wrong Niels is + 180cm (6 foot) and he is doing HbP, planches, stalder presses and was well ahead on his road to manna. We have to remember that fitness is a life style not a bunch of short term goals. Check out the below link of Niels Manna progress.
Thanks Mats, for showing us this.
Thanks to Coach Sommer and the team at GymnasticBodies, we do have a set of clear concise meaningful progressions that lead up to all these skills. In F1, manna begins to flex its muscle right off the bat with MN/PE2. Who knows what other dangers awaits the eager student in F2, F3, and F4.
Therefore, wouldn't it be more meaningful to focus the discussion on which specific elements are tough to master, than focusing on the skill itself? So in the case of the Manna, wouldn't a better discussion entail, for example, a discussion on which specific exercise "x" somebody thinks is unattainable. And then ask whether or not anybody has "mastered" that exercise, and what they did to master it?
I believe far too many people consider manna impossible because they are not willing to put in the hard work that manna training is or do not understand the manna as a skill. Instead of measuring monthly improvements in compression strength, pike/pancake flexibility and shoulder extension strength and flexibility people simply expect to be able press up into it.
So, yes, it will take many years to rebuild flexibility in the shoulder girdle and the hips, especially if you are past childhood. And it will still take many years to build strength in that range of motion once you unlock it. And the whole process is hugely dependent on genetics.
Whether or not it is practically possible to achieve a manna for a given individual; we just have to wait and see. So far we still need some people to get there, I believe Niels still needs a few inches. With that said I believe manna that the process for a manna will be so long for some individuals that it turns out practically impossible, unless they are able to tune up all parameters (hands on coaching, maximum training effort, the ability to follow all the courses, no missed training sessions, intelligent supplemental work properly individualized etc.)
Lately, I rescheduled to have an increased focus on mobility for press handstand and manna. Basically, half of any skill/mobility/strength exercise that I do will benefit either.
For manna:
- HS PE 2 iM
- Shoulder flex pulls
- AG-walks
- MN PE 2 + iM
- L-sit skill work
- Seated and weighted pancake stretches.
For press handstands:
- Headstands
- Wall handstands
- Shoulder dislocates
- Box presses
- Dips
- HPB PE 3
- Compression work and stretches mentioned above.
This was inspired by the recent release of H3, where coach posted that press handstand work was being under-prioritized. Surely, I have also seen the effects already with improved pike and straddle. I am still stuck on MN PE 2 so I figured I should put my focus on increasing flexibility until I reach mastery height for PE 2.