Musings and questions regarding FS ( hip extension, arches, hurdler)

Three separate topics here: 

 

Hip Extension:

I had a question, and I'm sure this is common knowledge to everyone but me. What is max range of hip extension one can achieve in the middle split and in life in general? I ask this because while looking at the aid pictures for the middle split (specifically SE23)the camera is at an obtuse  angle, and I cannot see how their leg angle is in relation to their hips. I can also see there is a fair amount of forward hip rotation implying a less than 270 degree angle( or 90 degrees backwards), but what is our ideal angle here?

 

Collapsing Arches:

One thing I noticed while working through the front split is that while doing any Achilles stretches, if I put too much force into the stretch it becomes impossible to keep the foot in a neutral position. My arch collapses and my foot goes flat. If I try to prioritize a well positioned foot then I cannot put any force into the stretch, so I am at a dilemma as to which to prioritize. Proper positioning is important, of course, but how can I strike a balance? or what are other people's approach to this?

Narrow Hurdler:
A far amount of force gets applied to my knee here in this stretch, and not so much into my hip, scaling is of course an option, and I feel that If I lean into my twisted leg trying to get my hip into the ground I can easily illicit some knee pain. This ties into swivel hips too. How can we get enough torque into the hip without causing pain/damage to the knee joint?

1. are we talking front split or side split? there are people who have very nice front splits with square hips and tall torsos, it just depends on how much effort you put towards stretching the quads. dont really focus so much on genetics or what isnt possible for you, focus on feeling the stretch and hinging at the front of the hip instead of pushing forward and letting the lower back hyperextend. this is where people cheat the stretch, they focus leaning forward and bending at the back in place of bracing the abs and stretching the right spot.

2. what stretches in specific are you referring to? for the squated or elevated seiza, ive used a strap to keep my ankles together. honestly, it makes my foot feel totally different than when i do it without. for curled foot, it really doesnt matter. i dont need the strap here.

3.gonna have to take a picture for this one to get more specific info for you. for people who cant do this with the foot elevated, i sit them on the yoga block of the stretching leg to help them keep the knees together and hinge from the hip with a straighter back. take a picture and we'll play with how to scale down.

Thanks for the reply,

 

1. front split

2. Collapsing arches is in reference to literally anything that stretches the Achilles by flexing the ankle. So FS/SE10 is a good example. In the photograph you can see her foot is flat with the floor, because it is so easy to have a flat foot here.  You can put quite a bit of weight onto your knee with this position. However it is also pretty easy to collapse the arch this way too. I thought the downsides of this were kind of well known, Maybe I'm not being clear about this and should go dig up some ancient Starrett videos, he does a good job explaining this.

Edit: I found this,  this roughly explains the concept which I'm conerned about:

Jared,

dont mention it buddy, thats what makes us a community

1. front split? same applies, we'll have to get you feeling the stretch in the best position(which often translates to uncomfortable ) to produce the best results. quads can be a bitch and a half to stretch out and get them sore. once you dial in how best to get new ranges, we can focus on how to proceed to get the most useful range for your goals, which is what you're after here. scale accordingly and remember to brace those abs!

2. ah, i see. simple, track the knee in direction of the big toe. that solvs the arch issue aside from actively focusing on where you are putting your weight. the reason its collapsing is because of the angle you're moving the knee in relation to the foot placement. work on this and get back to us.

1. Individual joint shape will somewhat determine what is possible regarding hip Hyperextension (extension beyond the anatomical position). Generally even very flexible people have some anterior pelvic tilt in a front split though (not to mention that many people who perform front splits externally rotate the hip and rotate the hips to further decrease the flexibility demands on the hip flexors) so it is pretty rare to see a truly 270 degree angle of hip Hyperextension.

The simplest answer is not to concern yourself with what is "possible" and instead just continue to try to make progress through consistency and effort. You will eventually find your ceiling that way.

2. I prefer to keep the ankle neutral, even if it means slightly less ROM. Understand that there are actually several joints in the "ankle" and the one we want to stretch (the one that stretches the Achilles and calf musculature) requires that the ankle remain neutral and resists pronation. If you need more leverage for your current level of flexibility try holding onto a bar or other solid object and pulling yourself forward into the stretch while holding the ankle neutral.

3.The discomfort you are feeling can be relieved by placing a bolster (pillow, yoga block, etc...) under your straight leg hip to maintain a level pelvis and avoid excessive internal rotating/pressure at your bent knee joint. Also never force the stretch to the point of pain, let the body adapt and only increase ROM when your body tells you it's ready for it.

Hope this helps.

That was actually a great answer and very helpful. Thank you. I of course realize to achieve that level of flexibility will take lots and lots of time. However for me it helps to with focusing the stretch and what to get out of it. In the case of a piriformis stretch found in in MS I would be best served to split it up into two different stretches: one where I lean forward and try to get at the back of my hip as best as possible, and another one where I'm upright trying to extend the hip of my rear leg as much as possible.

Regarding collapsing arches, I had the idea that Ive finally found a use for arch supports. LOL. Using them in this stretch would allow me to not worry about rolling the ankle or anything and I could apply maximum pressure and focus on the stretch.