Reintroduction and Reality Check

Hello friends,

I first came across gymnasticbodies back in 2008 after falling in love with the amazing showcases of strength on the rings during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. This has sent me on a long journey of exploring bodyweight strength, gymnastics, martial arts, many fitness modalities and then movement more generally. Although I fell off the wagon for several years (for reasons I won't go into now), in the last year I have reestablished my practice both mentally and physically.

I purchased both F1 and H1 over the summer as part of my exploration into various systems, and am now looking to restart in earnest. And so I've come to be a part of this community again largely looking for some support, perspective, and guidance.

I want to return, mentally first, to that vision of one day being able to perform incredible feats of strength on the rings. Specifically, I want to work up to a maltese cross on rings, as well as a solid ring handstand, ring planche, and everything else that comes on the way to achieving such a skill.

I don't mind if I never get there. The journey is what it's all about, and maybe the maltese is simply a vision to look toward and motivate action on a day to day basis. However, I would like to check this dream with realities:

Say, optimistically and in a decades time, after consistent practice, I'm at the point where I can begin specific training for elite ring strength. What is the training commitment like at that level? What is generally the time requirement per day and per week? Is an in person coach and a specific setup/facility absolutely necessary at that level? (Note I'm not talking about other technical elements such as swings and dismounts, only the strength skill aspects.)

I know I'm not there yet; right now my focus is on building the basics day in and day out. I understand and appreciate that this is a very action oriented community. I'm not here to have this discussion in place of putting the "nose to the grindstone". I ask this as a reality check, and to ask myself the hard questions about how important these loftier goals are to me and if I'm willing to pay the price when it comes down to it. Thank you in advance for any insights, experiences, and perspective you can provide.

I would very much appreciate the feedback of someone with at advanced level with their GST (and Coach, if you see this and are able to spare some time). It might also be a useful topic for others looking to check their expectations. 

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to continuing this new leg of my journey.

I kept the first post general in order to benefit others who may have similar questions and are also looking for some perspective (I'm not looking for a tailor made prognosis, merely an idea of what the training at an elite level looks like in comparison to the more foundational work), but here's some basic info about myself:

I'm 5'10", 23 years old, healthy, and have above average strength and flexibility in relation to the general population (which isn't saying much here). 

From a book on gymnastics by Arkaev & Suchilin, regarding training camps for Russian national team members: Top-class gymnasts must work every day and on average up to 6 hours a day...three training sessions a day...except Thursday (two) and Sunday (none)...

LateStarter@46 said:

From a book on gymnastics by Arkaev & Suchilin, regarding training camps for Russian national team members: Top-class gymnasts must work every day and on average up to 6 hours a day...three training sessions a day...except Thursday (two) and Sunday (none)...

Thank you for your reply. However, those athletes were certainly training for much more than just the strength elements on rings, and likely much more than just the still rings apparatus. I'm wondering about advanced training only in the high level ring strength elements, which many people here are interested in independent of the rest of the sport.

I would say it's extremely subjective. The frequency of training and the length of each training session varies based on people's recovery ability. As a base warm up the seven foundation elements and their relative integrated mobilities would be expected.  At the top level, inverted cross, iron cross planche, maltese, victorian, reverse muscle-up, front lever, back lever, l-sit, and then the many varieties of pulls and transitions into and out of these moves are likely what I would think are to be expected (I don't know all the technical names for these movements, but they are a-plenty: http://www.drillsandskills.com/skills/rings/).So, yeah. Is this what you're after?

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

I would say it's extremely subjective. The frequency of training and the length of each training session varies based on people's recovery ability. As a base warm up the seven foundation elements and their relative integrated mobilities would be expected.  At the top level, inverted cross, iron cross planche, maltese, victorian, reverse muscle-up, front lever, back lever, l-sit, and then the many varieties of pulls and transitions into and out of these moves are likely what I would think are to be expected (I don't know all the technical names for these movements, but they are a-plenty: http://www.drillsandskills.com/skills/rings/).So, yeah. Is this what you're after?

Daniel,

Yes, this is a very helpful post! Those are precisely the skills I'm after as "reach" goals. My target right now is, of course, to master the basics to the best of my ability, but those are in the back of my mind and serve as motivators.

It makes sense that training would vary between individuals. I was hoping that some individuals on here who have attained or helped others attain these levels might chime in on what some experiences have been in order to get a better sense of what some of the ranges are in terms of training schedules and facility/coaching needs. 

jeremyfrias said:

 

Say, optimistically and in a decades time, after consistent practice, I'm at the point where I can begin specific training for elite ring strength. What is the training commitment like at that level? What is generally the time requirement per day and per week? Is an in person coach and a specific setup/facility absolutely necessary at that level? (Note I'm not talking about other technical elements such as swings and dismounts, only the strength skill aspects.)

 

I know I'm not there yet; right now my focus is on building the basics day in and day out.

This is *exactly* what you need to do right now to reach higher later

It's hard to say exactly what the training volume would be like, because everyone I know who has achieved "elite" levels of rings strength had done so while also training gymnastics events, and 90% of them did so over long periods of time (i.e. because they started gymnastics at an early age). If I had to make a very rough guess, I'd say that you could achieve the "big four" static holds (cross, planche, inverted cross, maltese) with something like 6-8 hours a week of work: this would include targeted strength work, stretching, mobility work, and other miscellaneous ins and outs. 

The minimum equipment requirements are pretty simple: you need a pair of rings. An in-person coach will speed things along, but you can make your way without one if you have another source of guidance. Using other equipment may also help speed things up. If you're able to master Foundation (or achieve a similar level of strength, if you're using a different program), then you probably already have everything you need. 

It has nothing to do with the amount of time spent training of those specific ring strength elements and everything to do with completing the proper physical prep prior to commencing the training of those specific elements.

No preparation beforehand simply equals unnecessary injury afterhand.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Joshua, Coach, Jon,

Thank you all for your feedback and insights. I'm excited to be on this path! And perhaps a bit sore.

Best,

Jeremy