sPl/SE3 Near non-existent

Hi guys,

I really need some help I'm generally pretty happy in my training, things are progressing across the board. Even my press to HS is at least developing, if not as fast as i would like.

Planche however, is causing me a real headache.

I suspect it is as simple as being what Coach calls a 'normal adult--' that is, not a lot in the way of middle and lower traps. Some days I have a set or two of 30s, some days I struggle to get into the position, and I mean AT ALL.

I have been back over F1-2 planche work many times-- my only go to for where the missing link is in planche bounces and the 'pulling from the traps' Zach has described but I plain can't tell if I have. I have spun my wheels on this and just accepted that I'm not very good at them, but today it has actually pissed me off and I refuse to go another day without pursuing this

I am travelling till late tonight so I will submit a couple of form checks tomorrow. In the meantime, I am looking for your experiences in turning points for planche work, tuck planche in particular, possibly supplementary drills with a particular focus on serratus and mid-lower traps as specific to this. My final resort is spamming y'all with formchecks from PE1 up to pick over with a fine-toothed comb

I have read... pretty much everything on the forum relating to this, but while I have seen some things work for people I am yet to understand why and what the tipping point was, especially what made the difference in the mind and feeling correct activation-- I have thought I had it right many times but ended up stalling out.

From elevated planche leans while holding the same lean practice the retraction and protraction set of minimum 15 to 20 repetition, low rest.

If you can do tuck planche practice also some tuck planche push up focusing on pushing your shoulders forward during the ascent portion.

I understand your situation, for me is the same with SE7. I've found that is necessary a little modification on standard course progression in order to make my transition easier, for example instead of holding directly the SE7 I decided to attempt the mastery of an intermediate version: from adv tuck pl straddle the legs and arrive into SE7. basically before I wasn't able to reach the correct SE7 wihtout lifting the hips to much, this mistake moved me more over a SA planche press compared to a easier hips lift.

Have you seen the Pommel Horse drill Coach showed back in the day? I can't recall the name but i call them Pommel Liftovers. In a support facing the horse lift up through tuck and bring your legs to the other side and back again.

I've been stuck on SE3 for ages too, so am looking forward to the discussion.

I have also gone back to previous pe's, and am currently working on SE4, in the hope that the added intensity will positively affect the hold times of SE3.

Only reason I'm not going mental is that I'm actually getting stronger at PL whenever I do a test, so the effort is not for naught.

However, it definitely feels like I'm bumping against an invisible ceiling.

Yea SE3 is daunting...i feel like i need to lose 10-15lbs to make progress. keep falling back to the first microcycle

Has anyone experimented with greasing the groove or using band-assistance?

I have been on this aswell for over a year, probably two. But I am making progress again. I found it important to mix up the training to get progress. In my case this meant to go high volume on tuck planche and leans for a period of time, then holding short max power sets of straddle planche and open planche. My traps and upper back activation also benefitted from maltese box press, because you can just squeeze as hard as possible in this exercise.

This holds in all areas of training. If you plateau and have evaluated your activation/form, then change your approach completely. Go from high rest to low rest, or from low volume to high volume, change frequency, intensity, reps... etc.

And yes a correct planche is extremely hard, especially if you are not a twig that weighs less than 70kg.^^

You should try to work with resistance bands and see how it goes, you have nothing to lose.

I am in the same boat on open planche. I am stuck at 4 sets of 15s. I think for all of us it is weak mid and lower traps. I found that doing sets at the end of my workout of just raising into an open planche (or higher) and then lowering down helped. I was able to increase 4 sets of 20s in about 8 weeks. Unfortunately, dorsal wrist impingement set me back some, but I had it injected and my wrist is better than it ever was so I am starting back up. I'm curious what has worked for others as well as the straddle planche seems almost unobtainable for me.

You guys are champs. I go to work and come back to this much help? Why have I not asked this months ago?

Thank you.

Jon Douglas said:

...Even my press to HS is at least developing, if not as fast as i would like...

Hi Jon, I have also been up to SE3 and back down again! For what it's worth, I've found that progressing H2 has helped significantly. Perhaps there's another angle there?

Press Handstand is indeed all about dem trapz, so that would make sense, I guess?

Planche is about LOWER and MIDDLE traps, if you can obtain carryover from press to hs into planche , well your press to hs is not so good.

So, er well I just remembered that actually, planche is about lower and middle traps so no need to take a look at my suggestion... 

Jon, I know you are already quite strong and sorry for this simple reminder, but besides everything already mentioned, how's your glute strength coming along? Have you tried supplementing with kettlebell swings like Coach suggested before?

Romulo said:

Jon, I know you are already quite strong and sorry for this simple reminder, but besides everything already mentioned, how's your glute strength coming along? Have you tried supplementing with kettlebell swings like Coach suggested before?

My glutes and lower back are okay AFAIK... I am pretty comfortable with most spl mobility and regularly do sets of heavy archups, lunges and split squats. I had forgotten the swings though, it might be worth looking into that

Cole Dano said:

Have you seen the Pommel Horse drill Coach showed back in the day? I can't recall the name but i call them Pommel Liftovers. In a support facing the horse lift up through tuck and bring your legs to the other side and back again.

I will be attempting these in a couple of days when I get my pommel horse.  Any cues that I should keep in mind?  I am hoping these will help get me through  sPL/SE3.  

I had a huge issue distinguishing what to do to balance a planche up until a few months ago. especially between lean and elevated. in lean, i'd simply press down to the floor. when elevated, I noticed I had to press down and bring my arms up as if i was doing a Delt raise holding onto a barbell. it's funny because the cue that came to mind was "flip the table with straight arms" xD so it's like im bringing my arms(not shoulders) overhead and this makes the depression come easier.

is this something common that happens with people learning planche? because as soon as I started doing the leans like this, everything changed.

many magnitudes of helpful, thank you Zach.

thanks a lot for bringing up this discussion too, Jon

Like many on this thread I have been stuck on sPL/SE3 for approx. 2 years. These suggestions help a lot. Back to planche leans, elevated leans, and bounces for me until I get the correct pressure/lean and depression to hold for 5x30s with integrated mobility. The lack of rest kicks my ass like RC/PE6 did, but i want this skill so bad I can taste it!

Can anyone who has a pommel horse post a video of this lift over exercise you're all talking about?

I am enjoying this discussion. What i would like to know is who among the moderators,coaches, and fellow GB Athletes are training outside of their GB training.  I would have my kids going through strength progressions with some mirroring what Coach Sommers has written up. However i don't know how effective it all would be without the goal seeking part of the gymnastics side. I'll explain what i mean. 

Are these strength elements seen as the final goal?  Planche means nothing in gymnastics unless you can do it on the floor or rings in gymnastics. Press HS is useful for 5/6 events. Manna is able to be done on floor but doesn't have value anywhere else. There are no strength holds on PB and Manna on rings is theoretical until someone get's up there and does it.  What i'm proposing is that the pursuit of the skill and the connecting skills involving the 7 foundational goals might alleviate all of this plateauing. I simply don't understand how you get stuck on tuck planche for 2 years. I know that a gymnast must be strong but he must also be able to get to the position. I.E. on Rings.... Pull to inverted pike->Back uprise->Planche. Outside of this static hold are you doing athletic work that incorporates the hold position as well as transitions? I.E. L-hold->Tuck PL->L hold-> Bent Arm Press HS->Lower to Tuck PL->L hold Or even something like PBar swings with temporary Straddle PL holds and PL holds. I'm curious what the replies will be. 

In Men's gymnastics both JO and FIG there are routines that keep you focused on so much more than static strength. Thoughts everyone?

Transition and dynamic work is simply out of the possibilities of the vast majority part of people who have to complete foundations, for different reasons:

-work capacity

-joint preparation for dynamic/accelerated work. After completing foundations 4 you will see that those type of sets will give you benefits, but, can you manage them?

In 2 years many of my clients reached the straddle planche using the same standards I used and learned previously by C. Sommer, same thing for all the other elements. some of them now moved into full planche. Forum it is an giant resource but nothing beats the collaboration with qualified trainer (like some of the senior members of GB) or the participation in a seminar where different times "strategies" are proposed.

Some situations need to be addressed specifically, and what you can do is personal study in order to manage those situations or search for an experienced coach.

I've only worked closely with children and other athletic individuals. So when i hear of someone not making progress i have to question it. I see that a lot on the forum. People getting stuck and not knowing how to break out of their plateau is becoming more frequent. I'm not suggesting that any under-prepared adults start tumbling and working on ring swings. I am suggesting they work with the positions and elements they do have to better enable their bodies to master the progressions. Kind of like some kind of dedicated day to do sample routines that are based around the progressions their bodies already know. 

You work with more adults than i ever have so you would know better than i would Alessandro. In the case of the OP Jon, he was talking about not even being able to get into tuck PL on some days. Other posters haven't been able to move on from certain progressions where just strength is involved for years. What i'm discussing is a systemic approach that would address and alleviate this plateauing. Some users just can't search the forums to find and apply answers. 

@Bobby Harmston I think this it the pommel lift ("German") exercise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxJPXFGFuJo

Mentioned in this thread: Germans - A Dynamic Pushup Variation