Extreme Pain During HBP/PE15>iM

The title is an appropriate summary. I just started HBP/PE15, and the mobility is incredibly painful. Even the starting position is enough for it to start feeling uncomfortable, but moving into the stretch position is excruciating. I can manage 8 seconds each side before I simply have to tap out. In the stretch position, it doesn't at all feel like a pinched nerve or an intense stretch. It just plain hurts.

Does anyone know why this is or what I can do about it? I have only ever injured my shoulders once (both, about 3 years ago). I'm not too worried about my progression, as my HBP work is far ahead of everything else, but the shoulder pain in that position is a cause for concern. Any help is much appreciated 

What sort of injury did you get three years ago? If you have undiagnosed tears to (particularly the front of) the joint capsule, this stretch would certainly expose that and lead to pain. 

I have had my left shoulder repaired from a bankart lesion, and this stretch was uncomfortable to begin with, but it subsided with time, and was never extremely painful, as you describe it.

Someone more knowledgable could probably provide better info, but ultimately you should consult your MD about this.

I've seen that you are registered since 4 march of 2015, so basically I think that you purchased the foundations in this period.

Sounds like you've mastered 14-15 elements since march? i'm correct?

Alessandro Mainente said:

I've seen that you are registered since 4 march of 2015, so basically I think that you purchased the foundations in this period.

Sounds like you've mastered 14-15 elements since march? i'm correct?

My thoughts also.  Seems like very rapid strength progress without enough time perhaps for quality mobility to catch up.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Alessandro Mainente said:

I've seen that you are registered since 4 march of 2015, so basically I think that you purchased the foundations in this period.

Sounds like you've mastered 14-15 elements since march? i'm correct?

I started Foundation in April this year, but I've been performing calisthenics for about 3.5 years now. I have fairly good external rotation (forearm is horizontal in garudasana), but for some reason this stretch just doesn't feel good. I can perform HBP/PE18, but not at mastery. My shoulder extension during German Hang is good too (toes touching the ground while hanging from a bar about wrist height when reaching up).

Ravn said:

What sort of injury did you get three years ago? If you have undiagnosed tears to (particularly the front of) the joint capsule, this stretch would certainly expose that and lead to pain. 

 

I have had my left shoulder repaired from a bankart lesion, and this stretch was uncomfortable to begin with, but it subsided with time, and was never extremely painful, as you describe it.

 

Someone more knowledgable could probably provide better info, but ultimately you should consult your MD about this.

After really thinking about it, it's actually closer to 4 years ago  It was before I started training; I attempted a German Hang (but of course had no idea what it was at the time) and felt severe pain in both shoulders. I dropped off the rings (playground equipment) and had sore shoulders for the rest of the day. The next day it didn't hurt but I suffered from clicking and inflexibility in my shoulders ever since. This is the first instance of shoulder pain or injury since then. I didn't think it was serious enough to get checked (the ignorance of youth )

So far the pain has reduced to become 'bearable', but man that stretch sucks. I'm keen to work on it though, as it feels like the pain will improve with time. One shoulder seems to be better than the other now, but both are on the mend (albeit very slowly).

Shoulder inflexibility is mild. I think I have slightly reduced overhead ROM, but I'm not sure, though my internal rotation has definitely suffered. External rotation and extension seem fine.

You sound like me. Take your time with the im's. I had Osgood-Schlatter  (which mean irregular growth of the bones) and still have a bone spur in my right vastus medialis thanks to that, so my quad gets inflammed (and always would) after pickup soccer or if I do too much start/stop agility work. Needless to say, the SLS PE>ims have shored up and improved this issue. What is more, my ongoing shoulder issues have been identified, addressed, and in some cases fixed through the ims (strained my sternum by trying to work on Back Lever work too prematurely). If it hurts, go back and let your ego take the hit instead of your body. Your body will adjust over time. You may have been doing calisthenics, but you likely weren't doing GST. Don't want to sound dogmatic or pretentious but this stuff works, but it just works so much slower than we would anticipate or really hope for (I say this to myself at least monthly) in our instant gratification culture and society.

As I said previously to Daniel,  alteration in shoulders proportion due to tight muscles leads to different shoulder arthrotkinematic and unnatural shoulder work during overhead movements.

Can I see you PE11-12 IM's?

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

You sound like me. Take your time with the im's. I had Osgood-Schlatter  (which mean irregular growth of the bones) and still have a bone spur in my right vastus medialis thanks to that, so my quad gets inflammed (and always would) after pickup soccer or if I do too much start/stop agility work. Needless to say, the SLS PE>ims have shored up and improved this issue. What is more, my ongoing shoulder issues have been identified, addressed, and in some cases fixed through the ims (strained my sternum by trying to work on Back Lever work too prematurely). If it hurts, go back and let your ego take the hit instead of your body. Your body will adjust over time. You may have been doing calisthenics, but you likely weren't doing GST. Don't want to sound dogmatic or pretentious but this stuff works, but it just works so much slower than we would anticipate or really hope for (I say this to myself at least monthly) in our instant gratification culture and society.

I had always thought Osgood-Schlatter Disease was caused by microfractures to the tibial tuberosity. Are you sure that's what you have? It should manifest as high shin/low knee pain if it is. 

I have lupus, so if I'm not extra careful I get body wracking pain the next day to whip me back into line. I'm definitely okay with working on the basics and improving my mobility. That's why I didn't just jump into RC/SE or HBP/PE18 or ignore SLS altogether; I'll definitely spend the time fixing my weaknesses! "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link."

Alessandro Mainente said:

As I said previously to Daniel,  alteration in shoulders proportion due to tight muscles leads to different shoulder arthrotkinematic and unnatural shoulder work during overhead movements.

Can I see you PE11-12 IM's?

I'll have to find a video camera first  I felt absolutely nothing for HBP/PE11|12>iM. I think the difference is that in those two mobility drills I can rotate the shoulder, whereas with HBP/PE15, my forearm presses into the ground, preventing that rotation as shoulder extension increases. Does that hint at what the problem is?

Just as an aside, I did set mobility drill today, and while it still hurt a lot, the pain was much reduced. It feels more like being forced into a pike by a heavy coach than anything else; very sore, but still feels somewhat good afterwards. 

As a personal note, if in your german hang your body does not look completely perpendicular to the floor, you GH is not as good as you think.

Gives me more to work on! I'll definitely reassess my German Hang and see if it's up to par. Probably nothing special, but hopefully sufficient.

EDIT: Just went out and did it. On a wrist height bar (when reaching overhead), my toes were touching the ground and I could almost get my heels on the floor (a couple of centimetres space). Is this sufficient, or can I go further? It doesn't feel like a stretch; I just simply can't go deeper. Should I add weight?

Mercurial Flow said:

... Should I add weight? ...

No, you should post the requested videos for evaluation.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Will do. I'll purchase a video camera sometime in the coming weeks or see if I can borrow one 

Mercurial Flow said:

Will do. I'll purchase a video camera sometime in the coming weeks or see if I can borrow one 

Easiest to use a cell phone if you have access to one.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer