Incremental ROM vs. Negatives (HBP PE 16 vs HBP PE18)

Hi All,

 

A quick question about developing the strength required for HeSPUs. In F3, the strength required to perform HeSPUs is developed through the use of negatives (HBP PE16). However, the strength required to perform HSPUs is developed by incrementally increasing the range of motion (ROM) over time by altering the elevation of the surface to which your head touches (HBP PE18).

 

Given my glacially slow progress on HBP PE16 (9 months (and counting) of 3x2 reps against the wall, half of them too fast), I was curious as to why different approaches are used for these two exercises, and if there would be any merit in trying the incremental ROM approach to develop HeSPUs? Also, if not, why not?

 

Thanks,

N

Hey Neil,

 

Spending 9 months on any single element is most likely too long, unless there are some extenuating circumstances. I would recommend going back and really making sure you have all your dip variations fully mastered, as well as your pike headstand pushups as well. Try to make the previous progressions as difficult as possible, so that way you get stronger in preparation for headstand pushups.

 

Personally, I know the first few times I tried pike headstand pushups, I was not putting enough weight in my hands. I would simply lean back too far, thus giving myself the illusion of having completed the exercise without having actually gotten stronger. Good luck!

 

Best,

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

I am pretty confident that all of my dip progressions were mastered: the only one that gave me bother and took a long time to master was L Russian Dips (wasn't a fan of those! ). I am reasonably strong in dipping movements - my 1rm weighted dip is currently bw (85kg) + 40kg = 125kg total.

 

That said, I have always been weak in overhead pressing. My 1rm barbell shoulder press is currently 55kg, significantly below my bw. The issue with HeSPUs occurs for me as my head approaches the ground; this is where I have trouble exerting force. I wonder if re-visiting pike HeSPUs with a slight deficit, i.e. hands on a raised surface, that would allow me to work my problem ROM is a potential solution.

 

Thanks again,

N

Thanks Zach,

 

I'll try to get a video later today when I get home from work. Failing that, it'll be Wednesday.

 

Cheers,

N

A few things:

 

1: For box HeSPU (HBP 15), make absolutely sure that you press with your shoulders, not with your chest. In the arms extended position you shoulders should be complete open behind your ears. Until you can do this easily and perfectly, you have no business doing HBP 16.

 

2: HBP 16 makes sense in the context of HBP 17, not necessarily HBP 18. While the course says that you don't have to do HBP 16 freestanding, I don't see how you can graduate to 17 if you're not freestanding on 16.

 

The freestanding version of HBP 16 will teach you balance in all the positions of the HeSPU, while building the required strength.

 

Unless you really are very weak in the overhead press, I would use this occasion to begin working on free HS for time for a few sets after your primary H1 work sets, and switch to freestanding HBP 16 as soon as possible. Don't forget what I wrote at the top about HBP15, though.

Zach,

Videos below. A little fast but hopefully allow you to give me some pointers on form. Let me know if you need different angles.

http://youtu.be/DidMKDalmP4

http://youtu.be/4UPeGb99BhE

Thanks,

N

Thanks Zach, much appreciated. The elbow squeezing cue sounds like it will help a lot as I can feel my ability to exert force diminishing as I approach the floor. Noted on the arching as well - I anticipated that you would comment on this.

 

Cheers,

N

I second the comment about freestanding negatives.  I could do loads of HeSPU against a wall and it wasn't getting me anywhere so I decided to just move toward freestanding.

 

Here's what I did to get my first few freestanding HeSPU:

 

-Kick into a handstand with back to the wall, making sure hollow with PPT and cambered hand position (spreaed fingers and make them more closed so you have more control)

-Take one leg off the wall maintaining PPT & hollow

-Once you feel that leg is inline with your handstand, take the other leg off too

-Slowly lower down and in the beginning bend one leg to touch the wall if you need to to adjust your balance - better doing this than arching your back

-Lower as slow as you can throughout and especially at the bottom just before you're about to go into a headstand, try to stay in this position a few moments before you let your head hit the floor and settle into a HOLLOW HeS

 

I alternated with these between reps,:

 

-Get into a headstand and push as hard as you can.  Try to get head half an inch off the floor while maintaining hollow body and bend one leg to touch the wall if you need to: do not arch!

 

I did these every day and in 2 weeks I got a HeSPU.  The problem with the wall for me was the elbows and the arch I know now.  Doing them free standing forced me not to flare out my elbows and I started doing the one leg thing as a way of helping me just slightly to stop the dreaded arching of my back to compensate for my lack of strength.  It definitely broke that habit immediately.  Perhaps if I had been doing wall HeSPU with better form I wouldn't have had an issue with the transition to freestanding... but there ya go

 

hope that helps

Aside from all the information in the above responses, you might also have weakness in your supraspinatus. A functioning supraspinatus allows the deltoid to exert more force, as it holds the shoulder capsule in the correct position. This could explain why your dip strength is markedly better than your overhead pressing strength.