Static Seated Shoulder Flexion with Weighted Bar

Hello All,

How far apart should my hands be in the static seated shoulder flexion in Handstand 1 ? Just wide enough to get the arms behind ears and then gradually bring hands closer together or wide enough to get arms behind head and work on getting arms farther back ? What am I trying to achieve in this mobility exercise >?

Thanks,

Theodore Williams 

There's a few topics about this, you should check out the search function. quick summary: On this one, it's always shoulder width, never wider. You are trying to achieve full flexion, and learning how to use the traps to achieve that goal. Lock out elbows and shrug strongly, and pull back focusing on pure flexion, no Dislocate. The video is a bit misleading, most people will not be able to get past 180 flexion. If you can look from the side and draw a straight line from lower back to hands, you can call it good. If your traps aren't screaming you're doing it wrong

Beginning: shoulders should not dislocate or starting the dislocation. only flexion

mastery: shoulders width + one hand on left and right. for long terms goal . shoulders width.

Jason Dupree said:

There's a few topics about this, you should check out the search function. quick summary: On this one, it's always shoulder width, never wider. You are trying to achieve full flexion, and learning how to use the traps to achieve that goal. Lock out elbows and shrug strongly, and pull back focusing on pure flexion, no Dislocate. The video is a bit misleading, most people will not be able to get past 180 flexion. If you can look from the side and draw a straight line from lower back to hands, you can call it good. If your traps aren't screaming you're doing it wrong

Oh, then I've been doing it wrong for a long time. 

I read somewhere long ago that a good progression would be to start with hands pretty wide apart, and work your way inwards. Perhaps also start with a very low weight on the bar, and increase it later. 

I certainly DO feel a lot of pain and shaking in the muscles while doing this iM, but can't say I've done much progress with it. 

It sometimes hurt so much I think my shoulders are gonna pop out of their sockets. 

Perhaps I should mention that I've tried the iM/2 as well, and feel the same kind of pain there. 

Sorry if I hijacked the thread, but it's of course frustrating to be stuck for so long at the very first iM.

Alessandro Mainente said:

mastery: shoulders width + one hand on left and right. for long terms goal . shoulders width.

That makes sense... Just for kicks I actually tried shoulder width + 1 hand last night after spending mastering at shoulder width. Felt more trap activation, but it was easier to slip into dislocation. This may be a rare instruction from you that brings a sigh of relief as opposed to tears

@Primalisten, that was for iM2 and Dislocates

Shoulder width plus one hand width on left and right. Phew, I'd been trying to do this with shoulder width and definitely felt tinges of that crackling dislocation feeling coming on (the bad kind of dislocation, not the rehabilitation kind). Noting this, I am relieved because my -im work would sometimes go back and forth, but this was often due to me quickly decreasing the width in my hands. Made me think that the mastery I had achieved wasn't actually mastery...

so with correct width and scapula position how far beyond 180 should i go ?

Im on second progression and while headstand is very easy 5*60s i cannot get 90 degrees on my mobility at all so thought i might go back and revise previous mobility (seated flexion)

BTW

IM on F1 and H1 loving both programs. I feel stronger and more comfortable in my body and so far no chronic shoulder pains or anything of the sort like i felt doing other workouts in the past.

Certain mobility exercises are very humbling though(single leg, manna and handstand). 

hYYpYz Jason answered your exact question on the second post.

To be fair, I'm not sure how far you *should* shoot for. I always try to get past 180 which I can do slightly till I start leaning and it gets closer to 180. However from what Zach says:

Zach Armijo said:

You are still bringing the shoulder back too far. Upon looking at your hand placement, they are close together, which isn't a bad thing, you are just very loose in the shoulders already, but the load needs to be appropriate. 

 

A few more things stand out to me in this video:

 

• Keep ribs pulled down
• Do not flex the wrists. Keep them straight
• Lean torso forward even more
• Keep arms in line with your body/HS line. You are still pulling too far back. Keep arms in line with the yellow. If it's too easy, bump up the weight. You should feel a significant cramping in the traps. 

It looks like too far the other way is not the goal either. I've seen people who go past 180 who get a high five, but I think the deal is that it's not so far that they can just relax and let the weight hold you in place, like in the post I quoted, but you are having to fight and cramp in the traps to keep it up.

Basically, from what I've gathered, 180° + trap activation + enough forward lean with enough weight = good.

What is important to realise is this is a preparatory iM element for Handstand.

 It begins to teach how the middle trap is responsible for opening the shoulders to help create a stacked body line. Generally people are very weak in this movement and don't understand it.

Depending on your shoulders you need to go wide enough that you can lock the elbows out and elevate your shoulders, but not so wide that you can dislocate, which is what causes the arms to go too far behind. 

The scapula need to elevate and protract. It kind of feels like you are fighting to wrap them around the side of your rib cage.

Thank you Jason and others. Ive reread your first answer and that post with photo nailed it for me.

Does 20 kg goal apply here or can i call it good at 4-5kg ?

According to Alessandro, 7-8kg for everything before Dislocates, with the exception of PE5 prone flexion, which if I remember correctly 2.5 kg is enough. Maybe it was 5kg. It's on the forum somewhere.

i need to go back to that IM then...do i have to do the tripod again? I am very comfortable with headstand 5*60s. Can i do 2 IMs instead?

The course clearly states that 5lbs is all that is required for mastery of HS/PE1>iM. You can of course always continue to build strength with this exercise as you move through the course, but you only need 5lbs to claim mastery (as stated by the course itself).

Cole-

Wondering if there are some movements that would help me prepare for the scapula elevating and protracting outside of this im. This movement is new to me. In general, all arms over my head movements are new to me. (Hanging from a bar at shoulder width? Would I use same position there?)

Also, just to reclarify, I should NOT practice wider and then slowly move in width, I should practice at your recommended width ("Depending on your shoulders you need to go wide enough that you can lock the elbows out and elevate your shoulders, but not so wide that you can dislocate, which is what causes the arms to go too far behind. ) only.

for reference, the wide approach recommended here:

Thanks!! Kind of stuck here, would appreciate any ideas from anyone!

On 11/7/2015 at 11:06 PM, Keegan Yentsch said:

The course clearly states that 5lbs is all that is required for mastery of HS/PE1>iM.

Could anyone point me to where this is stated? I'm new to GB and have never seen any course material stating mastery weight for weighted exercises. I feel like there is something I should have read that I don't know about. Thanks.

Under the fitness tab you can navigate to the course library.  In the course library you can look up each elements progressions the related course videos and focus points. 

12 minutes ago, Ryan Reynolds said:

Under the fitness tab you can navigate to the course library.  In the course library you can look up each elements progressions the related course videos and focus points. 

I am aware of the course library and the bulleted info for each PE/SE/iM. The member I quoted mentioned it clearly states 5 lbs is the required mastery weight. I see that HS PE1>iM says "...using a weighted bar (5lb minimum)", but (to me) it is not clear if that is the starting weight or mastery weight. Since many of the weighted exercises do not mention any specific weight at all, I don't see how one could assume this is specifying the mastery weight.

I've asked questions pertaining to mastery weights for specific exercises already and no one mentioned "Go here and you can see all of the mastery weights". I just wanted to make sure it wasn't listed somewhere and I was missing out.

Hi Kenneth, 

For the weighted bar mobility exercises in Handstand One, the mastery weight is 5lbs minimum. When you first start I recommend to do the exercises without weight and make sure that your form is on point before adding weight

Just to reclarify, I should NOT practice wider and then slowly move in width?

Also, are there any other exercises that would help me work on this IM other than just practicing the IM?

Hi Tyson,

You want to keep your hands as wide you need in order to achieve a 45 degree lean. Once you've got this, you can move your hands closer until they're shoulder width apart. 

The exercises in the Thoracic Bridge series are great to complement your handstand training. Both shoulder flexion and shoulder extension is covered in the series

Thanks Pauline!

How long are we going to wait before there are proper video explanations of the PE and iM components on this course?  It seems that the course has been out for years and still has no adequate video explanations similar to F1.  I was trying to copy the video for this iM component and just found this thread, realizing I've probably been doing it wrong the entire time.

Hi Chris, 

Your recommendations are in the works. GymnasticBodies is builidng on my student requests and this is one of them. Stay tuned.