Hanging Leg Lift Help Appreciated

Hey everyone,

So I've been adding some HLLs into my training lately. After a couple of months of work, I've been able to build up my reps to a good 3x5. Looking for more info on the exercise, I came across this article by Coach Sommer:

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/developing-the-hanging-leg-lift/

​

I understand my HLLs might not ever get as good as those (they can almost get their head to their knees!), I'd like to get them as clean as possible. Currently, when I do them, I do have to close my shoulder angle a bit, and I touch the bar with my ankles (I'd like to maybe get my toes to the bar). So I figured I'd switch to using Coach's progression to try to get it better.

Right now, I suppose I'm on step 3, and I'm unable to get a hanging V. So here's what I planned:

-Twice a week, work on the Hanging  V. Maybe 3 x 10 sec holds, trying to really push my hips down as much as possible. Or should I do more (6x10 secs) as Coach usually likes people to hold things for a total of 60 secs?

-Twice a week, I'm doing some serious stretching. I started two months ago unable to touch my toes, now I can get palms to ground! I know flexibility is important, so I'm pushing hard here too.

My questions:

Is this a good plan? Or should I maybe have a day where I hold the V at the top (static day) and on the other day, just do HLLs as best as possible?

Sorry about so much writing, I wanted to give as much info as possible. Thank you for any help, I really like this exercise!

Have you checked out Foundations? It has all the progressions for leglifts and much more.

Hey thanks for the response!

I don't have Foundation. A fellow friend in college does. I took a peek, and the progression doesn't seem that different than the one in the article.

As far as answering my questions, the course only had a bit of info on "focus on touching toes to bar", which I would if I could hahaha. The article actually had just as much info though.

I guess you're saying that I should follow Foundation's progression over that article? As in, forget about the static Hanging V work, and just stick to pure full ROM movement until I can do them? I figured the Hanging V would be really good because it lets me spend time right where I need the most, but I'll do whatever gets me there faster!

Thank you so much for the guidance!

Yes foundation, because you develop basically a full pike in Foundation before you get on the stall bars. That's what makes it possible. Doing things with poor ROM gets you nowhere fast

Ah weird. I don't recall a full pike being on Foundation 1. I tried out all the integrated mobility with my friend (I think in the manna chapter) and was able to do it, so I figured, by Foundation standards, I was ready to get started.

So you're saying I should drop the Hanging V AND the HLLs until I can get a good, full pike? I figured it was like the manna and the L-sit, where you're allowed to work on it with less ROM (feet below hands) and work up to a better ROM as flexibility and strength increases.

Thank you for the response!

Well maybe not full pike but with Jefferson curls and pike hangs mastered, the passive flexibility should be there for hll. If that's the case you need to work your active compression in that ROM.

Video your hang along with your mobility exercises for better advice.

I see. Well, I still think my passive flexibility could use some work so I'm definitely going to keep that stuff up.

I don't actually have stall bars, so I can't really do the mobility from F1. I only tried it with my friend (who goes to an actual gymnastics gym). I'm sure it wasn't as good as Sommer's gymnasts, but I just remember my friend telling me to go as low as it felt manageable, and he was surprised I could go down to what I presume was an OK level. So I don't really have a video, sorry :/

I can tell you I can touch the floor with my palms by my feet in a pike stretch if that somehow helps. That's what I've been practicing mainly. Pike and hamstring stretches. I'm sure it's not as good as the pike hangs, but it's better than nothing no? I figured even if it takes me 3 times the time, it's better than just giving up because I don't have stall bars readily available.

I do have a video of my HLLs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PQKzsgJR8A&feature=youtu.be

Like I said, they aren't great at all. I do have to close my shoulder angle a large amount, which explains the heavy lean. And I contact the bar roughly with my ankles. I figure that as strength and flexibility improve, I'll be able to contact the bar with my toes instead, and the lean will automatically get fixed.

​So I guess the quest​ion is, are these OK enough that I can keep training them, constantly trying to better them? Or am I just better off dropping them until I can improve my pike (say, palms to floor, while raised on my toes)?

Thanks for all the help! I know Foundation IS the best idea to follow but honestly, to buy that course just for the HLLs seems like a waste since I don't plan to follow anything else (and I'd have to manage a stall bar-like set-up). So I figured following that article and with some forum help, while it might take me much longer, I will eventually get there (and I'm ok with that!).​

​

First:

Jesus, you need some stall bars, or at least something that will prevent your scapula from moving behind the bar. Without, you're just spinning you wheels, because your lats are allowed to do the work the your abs and hip flexors should be doing. You won't believe how different HLL's feel on stall bars vs. pullup bar. I'm guessing that you won't be able to resolve the ankle issue before you move on to the stall bars.

Second:

Why only focus on HLL? Getting a strong anterior chain while neglecting your posterior train is a good way to get injured, or at least screw up your posture. Keep a balanced approach, it will serve you much better in the long run. Buying F1 just to do HLL would indeed be a waste of money, and I'm sure you will get hooked once you see what a balanced workout is all about.

This is not an HLL..

Even tough you doing it on pullup bar it can be done better..

Ravn said:

First:

Jesus, you need some stall bars, or at least something that will prevent your scapula from moving behind the bar. Without, you're just spinning you wheels, because your lats are allowed to do the work the your abs and hip flexors should be doing. You won't believe how different HLL's feel on stall bars vs. pullup bar. I'm guessing that you won't be able to resolve the ankle issue before you move on to the stall bars.

 

Second:

Why only focus on HLL? Getting a strong anterior chain while neglecting your posterior train is a good way to get injured, or at least screw up your posture. Keep a balanced approach, it will serve you much better in the long run. Buying F1 just to do HLL would indeed be a waste of money, and I'm sure you will get hooked once you see what a balanced workout is all about.

Well, I don't really have a good set up for stall bar-like stuff. I have a few friends who can do them beautifully on bars, so I figured I could develop it on the bars as well (maybe taking longer). If the bar is useless and I need stall bars to develop them, then screw it, I'm giving up on this exercise. Not about to spend months on it if it won't get better.

I figured since Coach made that article and he said it was OK to use a bar as long as you constantly checked form to minimize lean backwards, that I could also get there using that guide. But I suppose many years after, people have realized the stall bar is a necessity, not just an option.

As far as your second comment, I do a good bit of posterior chain work. Probably more than anterior work. That's why I looked into HLLs in  the first place 

Thanks for the help. I'll look around for another exercise that helps me strengthen the anterior chain instead of this. 

IIRC, the article mentions that you can work around not having stall bars by having a partner pushing from behind.

I'd be interested in what the third best option would be if you have neither stall bars nor partners?

Good news! I set up a couple of pins on a power rack, on the same side. One at the highest level, one right by my shoulders when I'm hanging. It isn't high enough for me to freely hang, but anything higher than a hanging L (and even a bit lower) seems totally possible.

I gave the leg raises a shot with this set up. I didn't feel them particularly harder. However, when my legs touch the bar, it's at around ankle level (which would make sense since whatever distance my shoulders leaned back before, my shoulders must now take on). The shoulder angle is , hence, even more closed. If you looked at my torso, it looks like a low front lever.

Thanks for all the help!