Twenty Minutes Foundation?

So, I keep seeing posts from varying podcasts where Coach mentions the Foundation workouts should last only 20 minutes. I am just wondering if I'm missing something because even when I'm huffing and puffing and busting ass my week 11 workouts last double that timeframe at their shortest (forty minutes). Of course, the Handstand workouts are about 20 minutes, but all said and done it takes me longer than that. I don't reckon I'm resting much, so something is lost on me as to how that's feasible.

depends at the week of foundation

yeah, coach mentions that you can start with a reasonably short workout depending on level of development and it progressing from there.

Ahh okay. So it varies then as I assumed (a Block 1 week 1 workout assumedly would take me 20 minutes). Thanks, I was just wondering if I was missing something in trying to kill myself to rush through the routine in twenty minutes but still being unable to do so.

I've never had a 20 minute foundation workout...always break at least an hour

My personal best was 27 minutes for a standard workout. No mastery sets and only little exercises in 3rd microcycle.

Okay. Good to know. I thought Coach's gymnasts were somehow bending laws of time and space.

Not bending the laws of space and time, my athletes are just much more advanced then you guys are at present.  

What you guys will consider as a workout later, my athletes considered a warmup that was completed in approx 20 min.  For example on a 7m rope; a triple climb, a double and a double.  All completed in less than 5 minutes.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Clearly. I would fathom that Allan Bower and Sam Mikulak wouldn't find any of the PEs to be really that difficult by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think I would either if I could pull off half of the stuff they did in the P&G. Some day...

Most of my regular workouts are in the 80-90 minute range.

Yesterday (Saturday) I did Hollow Body Hold and HS/PE5. That workout lasted about an hour.  Just those two elements.

Though I'll admit that part of the reason for this is I try to do the dislocates & inlocates very slowly and carefully, now that I'm approaching mastery width for both, and I don't want to have any injury issues that could potentially set me back by 12 months or worse.

The only time I've had a workout close to 30 minutes was when I just did one element, say SLS, because of lack of time.

It takes you thirty minutes to do one progression? So, in other words five sets with an integrated mobility between. How? Sorry for my ignorance but that seems excessive. Even if I went extra slowly I don't see how the SLS movements could take that long.

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

It takes you thirty minutes to do one progression? So, in other words five sets with an integrated mobility between. How? Sorry for my ignorance but that seems excessive. Even if I went extra slowly I don't see how the SLS movements could take that long.

Yes.

And I've had days where I just focused on SLS and checked my watch and I'd spent 40 minutes or so.

The warm up takes about 10-15 minutes. I typically work through most progressions, spending extra time on side to side squats to warm up my hips and make them more flexible. I'm currently doing Hawaiian Squats.

I don't think 2 elements should take an hour but 20 minutes isn't realistic either.

My F workout is about 1.5 hours but that includes a general warmup (before my F warm up) as I workout after I wake up.

Fa currently includes, 7 minutes of PE holds, 7 minutes of IM holds and 100+ reps (assume 4s per rep is about 7+ minutes). Now factor equipment changes and any rest between elements.

When I mastered HBH it took me about nine minutes. Absolute hell, but only nine minutes.

HS/PE5 has max 30s work set, with a total 25 dislocates for mastery. So unless each dislocate was a minute long....

As the workouts progress and the discipline from the long holds has been developed, the workouts start getting shorter; however, they require more focus to properly do the elements. I'd imagine this continues to the end of F4.

aiken54 said:

When I mastered HBH it took me about nine minutes. Absolute hell, but only nine minutes.

HS/PE5 has max 30s work set, with a total 25 dislocates for mastery. So unless each dislocate was a minute long....

As the workouts progress and the discipline from the long holds has been developed, the workouts start getting shorter; however, they require more focus to properly do the elements. I'd imagine this continues to the end of F4.

It does, and its extra important to keep the pace up then

The trick about mastery is control of tempo.

In the beginning the control comes from slow-paced movements, as you get more advanced you can step up the tempo to recruit more muscle fibers by being explosive by being controlled.

Doing that will eventually reduce mastery time too

I find I collect extras as I go along, im's that are helping or repeating F1 rows or pushups, for example. Also keep a few ABH in there and stuff like that. So it takes longer but I don't care. I could do less and quicker and sometimes do when time is pressing.

Alexander Egebak said:

The trick about mastery is control of tempo.

In the beginning the control comes from slow-paced movements, as you get more advanced you can step up the tempo to recruit more muscle fibers by being explosive by being controlled.

Doing that will eventually reduce mastery time too

Could you clarify this a bit for me. What is beginning and advanced here? First week, cycle or F1-F4? I have always been a bit curious about tempo and tried to match the video. Although I have come to understand that for some movements it does not matter as long as you are controlled. How should it feel/look when you are simultaneously explosive and controlled? When is it beneficial to start training more explosive for a specific progression?

MattiasF said:

Could you clarify this a bit for me. What is beginning and advanced here? First week, cycle or F1-F4? I have always been a bit curious about tempo and tried to match the video. Although I have come to understand that for some movements it does not matter as long as you are controlled. How should it feel/look when you are simultaneously explosive and controlled? When is it beneficial to start training more explosive for a specific progression?

The course video exercises are most likely performed in a slower-paced than what the athletes are used to do for us to see the many details by studying the video and to not set the bar too high for us beginners.

Upping the tempo should come post-mastery of normal standards. It is not very important until you reach 5-10 rep/sets.

Being explosive and controlled simply implies that you perform reps faster

Alexander Egebak said:

The course video exercises are most likely performed in a slower-paced than what the athletes are used to do for us to see the many details by studying the video and to not set the bar too high for us beginners.

 

Upping the tempo should come post-mastery of normal standards. It is not very important until you reach 5-10 rep/sets.

 

Being explosive and controlled simply implies that you perform reps faster

So for a 15 rep progression, after 5-10 reps is mastered i.e. generally week 1-8, I should start to focus on being more explosive? Sorry, just want this to be crystal clear for me :-)

MattiasF said:

So for a 15 rep progression, after 5-10 reps is mastered i.e. generally week 1-8, I should start to focus on being more explosive? Sorry, just want this to be crystal clear for me :-)

No, you should not.

Keep performing the reps as demonstrated in the course videos. If in doubt, post a form check in the appropriate forum.

'Explosive' training is not the focus of the Foundation series; have a look through the Movement forum for more on dynamic strength

MattiasF, all he means is that as you get better at a move you will be able to do them faster and with more control. Think on how when doing a new progression that is hard 5 reps is difficult. When you've mastered it though, 5 reps is no longer difficult. That's all he's saying. Once you've mastered an element going through it at a mastery tempo will not actually take that much time since you'll have so much control. Don't overemphasize this, just do the prescribed reps and sets and focus on improving the control and form, the ability to do the movement faster (and correctly) will naturally occur and take care of itself as you get better.

I can now do deck squats easily. When I first started Foundations, I couldn't. Make sense? Similarly, Tuck-Ups were difficult. Now they aren't and the Single Armed Windmills aren't so bad at 20lb dumbbells, however when I started that was unimaginable.

Thanks Jon, superbly clear as always :-)

Thanks Daniel that makes perfect sense!