Functional Strength: a rhetorical question and not something about specific aspects of GST (like planche for example)

So GB got me contemplating about how GST and body-weight training is great for functional strength and has a nice crossover to other disciplines. My question is, does it really provide functional strength, and how often do you really find that crossover with other types of strength training? Does GST amp out more functional strength than, say, strongman style training for example?

Also, I keep hearing about max strength, but what other types of strength are out there; and where do you find those types of strengths most often (in sports, different strength training disciplines, etc)? And finally, what types of strength do you mostly see people use and what are some personal examples of crossovers do/did you see with GST to (insert different strength training style) or even other types of strength training you did before GST? GB opened my eyes to different styles of strength and I really want to explore different kinds of strengths that other styles provide out there.

Does it provide functional strength? Yes. And it makes 'functional training' you see in gyms seem like child's play. My deadlift went from barely getting a 185 off the ground to easy 245 for reps just from arch body holds.

Jason Dupree said:

Does it provide functional strength? Yes. And it makes 'functional training' you see in gyms seem like child's play. My deadlift went from barely getting a 185 off the ground to easy 245 for reps just from arch body holds.

Really? Damn that was a huge increase Has it had any crossover to your upper body strength and not just lower body?

As far as crossover, no, because I don't really do anything but GST for upper body so I wouldn't know. I do try harder things every once in a while and am always surprised how easy they are, like rope climb, just from focusing on basics.

As far as strength people use...   the strength-endurance to hold a 25+lbs toddler in your bent arm while wandering through a store would be really handy, though it is a bit task-specific

I talk for my experience working around the powerlifter and gymnasts. 

the weak point of benchpress are shoulders and the triceps. hollow pressing work provides an impressive shoulders/triceps strength. so basically when you teach a gymasts to benchpress he has better probabilities to lift a good weight . i had my personal best without specific training for benchpress: around 130 kg and i weight 79 kg.

Unlike Jason, my lower body strength has suffered after transitioning from powerlifting and strongman to Foundation with the occasional SM elements added in.  On the other hand, I have been losing fat, and noticing significant changes in my upper body.  

As far as functional goes, that term doesn't really mean much without perspective.  What is functional for you?  Does your job or hobby require specific strengths?  Or are you just interested in general health or well-being?  

GB is certainly a great training methodology, but if your goal is to be a competitive strongman or powerlifter, its probably not the best way to train.  Although some of the movements are great for assistance work and prehab.

Nick_EOD said:

Unlike Jason, my lower body strength has suffered after transitioning from powerlifting and strongman to Foundation with the occasional SM elements added in.  On the other hand, I have been losing fat, and noticing significant changes in my upper body.  

As far as functional goes, that term doesn't really mean much without perspective.  What is functional for you?  Does your job or hobby require specific strengths?  Or are you just interested in general health or well-being?  

GB is certainly a great training methodology, but if your goal is to be a competitive strongman or powerlifter, its probably not the best way to train.  Although some of the movements are great for assistance work and prehab.

Thank you, Nick For me, functional strength is strength that people use throughout their daily lives to complete certain tasks, whther that is fitness or just walking from the couch to the nearest grocery market. I agree that GST can really help with functional upper body strength, but how does it apply on the lower body? Also, how would a very dynamic strength training style like strongman training compare with GST? Would properly combining both, little portion by little portion, help out or would it spell disaster? 

Alessandro Mainente said:

I talk for my experience working around the powerlifter and gymnasts. 

the weak point of benchpress are shoulders and the triceps. hollow pressing work provides an impressive shoulders/triceps strength. so basically when you teach a gymasts to benchpress he has better probabilities to lift a good weight . i had my personal best without specific training for benchpress: around 130 kg and i weight 79 kg.

OMG that is awesome! Out of curiosity did it happen progressively or did it randomly happened overnight (although I'm not sure if that is even possible)?

vinca_minor said:

As far as strength people use...   the strength-endurance to hold a 25+lbs toddler in your bent arm while wandering through a store would be really handy, though it is a bit task-specific

Yup, that is a very specific but very functional kind of strength XD

Jason Dupree said:

As far as crossover, no, because I don't really do anything but GST for upper body so I wouldn't know. I do try harder things every once in a while and am always surprised how easy they are, like rope climb, just from focusing on basics.

Alright, awesome! Thank you Jason, for your explanation  

GB as preparation for climbing, particular for steep overhanging powermoves, is great. Also makes you more powerful at all those weird angles you encounter in climbing.

However, I'm probably 7-8 kg heavier than I should be, if I wanted to be a high level climber. There's just too much hypertrophy going on, I guess I'll have to live with it

Jesse Kim said:

Thank you, Nick For me, functional strength is strength that people use throughout their daily lives to complete certain tasks, whther that is fitness or just walking from the couch to the nearest grocery market. I agree that GST can really help with functional upper body strength, but how does it apply on the lower body? Also, how would a very dynamic strength training style like strongman training compare with GST? Would properly combining both, little portion by little portion, help out or would it spell disaster? 

They are different.  It's hard to compare them.  Is your goal to carry heavy stuff for distances?  Strongman is great here.  Do you want superior control over your own body?  GST is better here. You can develop plenty of functional lower body strength with GST.  You may not be able to pull an airplane as far, or yoke walk with quite so much weight, but how often do people really do those things?

And it's certainly possible to combine them.  I still use various weighted carry movements and the end of almost every workout.  I just have to realize I am taking some energy I could put towards GST and am using it elsewhere.  It hasn't been detrimental, I've just split my progress is all.

Ravn said:

GB as preparation for climbing, particular for steep overhanging powermoves, is great. Also makes you more powerful at all those weird angles you encounter in climbing.

 

However, I'm probably 7-8 kg heavier than I should be, if I wanted to be a high level climber. There's just too much hypertrophy going on, I guess I'll have to live with it

I'm just like you; ever since only doing body weight training/GST, I've lost some weight and gained some muscle; however that extra gain in weight is kind of making things harder for me, but like you said, I just have to deal with it. Thank you

Nick_EOD said:

They are different.  It's hard to compare them.  Is your goal to carry heavy stuff for distances?  Strongman is great here.  Do you want superior control over your own body?  GST is better here. You can develop plenty of functional lower body strength with GST.  You may not be able to pull an airplane as far, or yoke walk with quite so much weight, but how often do people really do those things?

 

And it's certainly possible to combine them.  I still use various weighted carry movements and the end of almost every workout.  I just have to realize I am taking some energy I could put towards GST and am using it elsewhere.  It hasn't been detrimental, I've just split my progress is all.

Oh, superior control over my body no doubt about it. However (please don't crucify me), with all that said and done, I truly believe that, all strength styles are limited to what they can do, even GST :'( In terms of external resistance, people are almost always more likely to manipulate external loads than their own bodies. That's why my plan is to do GST, and from time to time, to test how much stronger I've become, do some basic strongman routines like the yoke walk and farmer's walk. If done little by little, would this be helpful for somebody who is just a health/fitness fanatic? :/

Not to be trite, but Gymnastic Strength Training™ is the original functional strength.

If by functional strength you mean strongman, you'll need to practice that specifically. Hand strength seems to be critical and the huge external loads would be separate skills.

GST would be good addition IMO.

If by functional you mean transferable, not necessarily. Chen Yibing would have as much success loading atlas stones or pulling trucks as Hafthor Bjornsson would have doing a planche on the rings. Both sports are comprised of events, which are trained for specifically and suited to certain types of athletes. 

Here are the kinds of strength

Maximal strength (Po) - characterizes the greatest magnitude of effort which the athlete can display when there is unlimited time. Maximal strength is most need when the movement is executed  with great external resistance. This determines how great the maximum working effort will be / Fmax /.

High-speed strength (Fv) - is displayed in high-speed movements involving small external resistance.

Explosive strength  - is characterizes  by the athlete’s  ability to display powerful efforts in the shortest amount of time. Explosive strength is determined by the relation of Fmax / tmax.

Starting strength  - characterizes the ability of athlete to produce rapid increase in external force at the beginning of the muscle tension produced by muscles. It is measured by the tangent to the curve F /t.

Reactive ability - characterizes the specific quality of nervous-muscle system to display a  powerful  explosive effort  immediately  after sharp mechanical stretching of muscles by an external force. This regime is characterized by  the fast  switching of  the muscles  from eccentric work to concentric producing a maximal dynamic load at this moment. An example of this would  be the take-off in jumping.

Local muscular endurance - is a characterized by  the  ability of separate groups of muscles and physiological systems of the body to ensured the motor activity while displaying the necessary  level of efforts for e long period of time and with no decrease in their  working effect.

Maximal anaerobic power - is the ability of the body to effectively execute the short-term  (10-15 sec) work at maximum (utmost) capacity in cyclic or repeated regimes.

from http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Forum/tabid/84/forumid/15/threadid/78/scope/posts/Default.aspx

From Professor Verkhoshansky, the father of the Shock Method or Plyometrics, on the types of strength.

Blairbob said:

Here are the kinds of strength

Maximal strength (Po) - characterizes the greatest magnitude of effort which the athlete can display when there is unlimited time. Maximal strength is most need when the movement is executed  with great external resistance. This determines how great the maximum working effort will be / Fmax /.

High-speed strength (Fv) - is displayed in high-speed movements involving small external resistance.

Explosive strength  - is characterizes  by the athlete’s  ability to display powerful efforts in the shortest amount of time. Explosive strength is determined by the relation of Fmax / tmax.

Starting strength  - characterizes the ability of athlete to produce rapid increase in external force at the beginning of the muscle tension produced by muscles. It is measured by the tangent to the curve F /t.

Reactive ability - characterizes the specific quality of nervous-muscle system to display a  powerful  explosive effort  immediately  after sharp mechanical stretching of muscles by an external force. This regime is characterized by  the fast  switching of  the muscles  from eccentric work to concentric producing a maximal dynamic load at this moment. An example of this would  be the take-off in jumping.

Local muscular endurance - is a characterized by  the  ability of separate groups of muscles and physiological systems of the body to ensured the motor activity while displaying the necessary  level of efforts for e long period of time and with no decrease in their  working effect.

Maximal anaerobic power - is the ability of the body to effectively execute the short-term  (10-15 sec) work at maximum (utmost) capacity in cyclic or repeated regimes.

from http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Forum/tabid/84/forumid/15/threadid/78/scope/posts/Default.aspx

 

 

From Professor Verkhoshansky, the father of the Shock Method or Plyometrics, on the types of strength.

This was the kind of answer that I was looking for. Thank you Blairbob

As far as GST compares to other modes of training, I've found that calisthenics/GST teaches the concept of full-body tension better than the rest.  It is possible to squat and deadlift to a certain point with poor core tension/stability, but a 1-arm pushup, PPP, or HBR simply cannot be done without learning to brace everything properly.  The time I spent learning to brace with just basic calisthenics work drove my ability to do the powerlifts at a much higher level than my lifting partner, who started lifting weights about the same time I did.

Perhaps the way to say it is that my skill of using my strength was higher than his skill.

In my opinion, GST brings "relative strength" while other strength styles builds functional strength. Relative strength meaning that you have strength carrying over to other disciplines why other styles don't have as much. I say this because gymnastics is highly technical and a highly technical style in my humble opinion shouldn't be that "functional". I try to keep an open mind about this because sometimes talking about can bring up dogmatic viewpoints. While I love GST, I get the feeling that some of its philosophies are pretty dogmatic.