Programming fasting into workout schedule

Hello,

I am on foundation and handstand and I am interested in getting some full day fasts (only water) into my schedule.

A bit of the issue being that Sunday and Saturday are the only viable days. But, on Friday I have F7 and on Monday I have F7, plus a good deal of steady state deadlifts and back squats. I am a bit worried about fasting either before or after such strenous workouts. Does anyone have experience with this? Recommendations, advice, tips?

Hi Micawberian,

Fasting can be a potent and beneficial stimulus to the body, and for most people a little bit goes a long way. Have you experimented with shorter fasts yet? Even something as simple as skipping breakfast (and thus fasting for ~12-16 hours) can provide some positive increases in insulin sensitivity, fat adaptation, and cognitive focus.

If you are interested in trying a longer fast on the weekends, then a few caveats:

• Choose a day where you will otherwise have things to do. Fasting while sitting on your couch thinking about food is terrible, speaking from experience.
• If you get really hungry, I recommend breaking the fast rather than "sticking it out" and otherwise significantly elevating your cortisol.
• Try fasting on Saturday one week and Sunday the next week, and note any differences between your Monday workout each time. I imagine everyone will respond slightly different depending on the workout and particular nature of the fast.

Self-experimentation with fasting, within reason, is a great way learn more about your own body. Again, a little bit goes a long way. Good luck, and keep us updated!

Best,

Chris

Thanks for the response, Chris

Well you seem quite the proponent on fasting, have you fasted whilst doing foundation? I would be interested in hearing your experiences with exercise on the days afterward.

I have done quite a few shorter fasts, like you say ~15 hours skipping breakfast. But I would have just eaten more later in the day to make up for it.

Also, have you pushed beyond into multiple days of fasting, or have an opinion on it?

I appreciate the tips!

I've done 24, 36, and 48 hour fasts while doing foundation workouts. Some were rough...some were surprisingly easy.

Fasting upwards of 24 hours is something i think every adult should be doing on a weekly basis. Too many benefits to count.   

To be honest, I only fast very intermittently these days due to the elevated cortisol exposure that comes along with, well, starving yourself for a short period of time. Between training twice-a-day and other stressors, I try to focus on more parasympathetic lifestyle habits like a clean diet, good sleep, manual therapy, etc.

When and if I do fast, it typically is on Sundays during the winter when I have a full day of teaching (percussion, not GST) to keep my mind occupied. If I get hungry, then I break the fast with something small and don't stress about it. The biggest issue with fasting in my opinion is when people schedule fasting into their routines and try to forcefully starve themselves when their bodies are already stressed. Just a caveat, not a counter-argument.

Good luck!

Best,

Chris

I agree with Chris. if you eat only when you are hungry  ( as opposed to it being breakfast/lunch/dinner time) your body will let you know when it needs to fast. That said, when I have been to the gym ( crossfit)  my body rarely says " ok let's fast !"

Chris Garay said:

To be honest, I only fast very intermittently these days due to the elevated cortisol exposure that comes along with, well, starving yourself for a short period of time. Between training twice-a-day and other stressors, I try to focus on more parasympathetic lifestyle habits like a clean diet, good sleep, manual therapy, etc.

 

When and if I do fast, it typically is on Sundays during the winter when I have a full day of teaching (percussion, not GST) to keep my mind occupied. If I get hungry, then I break the fast with something small and don't stress about it. The biggest issue with fasting in my opinion is when people schedule fasting into their routines and try to forcefully starve themselves when their bodies are already stressed. Just a caveat, not a counter-argument.

 

Good luck!

 

Best,

Chris

Okay, thanks Chris I appreciate your general laid back attitude towards fasting. I did just a 20 hour fast overnight today to test the waters a little bit more today. All in all, not too bad. For whatever reason, I just didn't feel hungry after a few hours of being awake. Even when I broke the fast, I didn't really feel like eating. But also worth noting that its evening now and my energy levels are really low right now and I just feel extremely sleeply and languid, despite normally being a workhorse at this time.

Next week I'll try sunday!

I like a short fast on Sunday. It's from my last meal on Saturday until I finally feel hungry and ravenous and have to get out of bed on Sunday (generally during the afternoon to late evening pending). I also do next to nothing on Sunday but read and lay around, watch some tv, take a walk or bike ride, stretch and etc. I basically get out of bed on Sunday when I'm too hungry to stay in bed after reading (but I do get up to use the lavatory or get some water).

So if you do the math, it's probably at least 12-16hours.

I train on Saturday pretty hard as the 5th and last day of training on the week often with a light bodyweight session at night. So yeah, Saturday would never work. Skipping even breakfast makes training craptastic.

Some notions that I've made with my three and a half years of doing various forms of IF:

• The longer i fast when cutting, the easier the cutting will be (I fast around 20 hours every day when cutting)
• It's easier to eat 1000-2000 kcal a day (a huge deficit for me) than trying to eat at maintenance calories. I rarely have maintenance days, only surplus days
• I can take zero to low carbs and high carbs, but don't give me medium carbs! The hunger caused by medium carb days is something many of my friends have noticed, and I see it popping up a lot on various forums.
• The best way to feel like a superhero while cutting is utilizing only protein days with a long fast. For me, +20 hours fasting and 1400 grams of coocked minsed meat before bed (Cooking minsed meat the right way will decrease the fat amount to around 10%).
• Recipe for success: Only protein day followed by an epic workout day with an epic carb load. Rippedness level 9000 is behind the door.
• I workout fasted (with bcaa:s) almost every time, but every now and then I have a pre-workout meal just to see if the world has changed. I haven't seen any reliable benefits to start eating pre-workout meals more often.
• Fasting has allowed me to slack when I feel like it: I can go to visit my family and eat 10 000 kcal a day if I feel like it without feeling any guilt. I know it will lose the fat in a couple of weeks.
• My psychopatic tendencies have increased: I have almost completely stopped relating to people who whine about being hungry, and have zero empathy for them.

2 hours ago, Aaro Helander said:

 

• Recipe for success: Only protein day followed by an epic workout day with an epic carb load. Rippedness level 9000 is behind the door.

Dear 

followed you mean in the same day or a day after only protein day ?

By epic carb load you mean ?

thank you

The day after. The carb load depends, for me it's usually 400-600 grams of carbs, depending on the level of glycogen depletion that I perceive.

thanks a lot

Wow, so interesting to read an approach that is 100% opposite to mine.  I just follow the basic "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants" by Michael Pollen and listen to what works for my training and my % body fat is probably lower at 39 years old than anyone I know who talks about "cutting, IF, carb loading, etc." and all that so I guess the bottom line is that if it works for you then keep doing it.  For me the details that work are no dieting cycles at all, strive for the same every day but if a carrot cake, chocolate bar or six-pack looks good to me then I feel no guilt about enjoying it.

Checked your Instagram David,  impressive level of leanness indeed! Even though I'm a proponent of high protein high carb approaches most of the time, I think there's something close to mysterious really going on with how nutrition really affects physical development. We see muscular and ripped guys eating mostly plants and maybe not "enough" protein from a certain viewpoint, but they still develop fast and can be huge.

On 12/8/2015 at 7:45 PM, Biren Patel said:

I am a bit worried about fasting either before or after such strenous workouts. Does anyone have experience with this?

i am doing dry fasts(witout water) for about 3 years now every friday for 36 hours and 2 long dry fasts for 84 hours each through the year. From my experience only i recommend to do your fasts before day training and not after. In case you want,  drink a glass of fruit juice 1 hour before training.  You will notice that it will be your easiest training of the week.

On 4/6/2016 at 6:13 AM, Aaro Helander said:

Some notions that I've made with my three and a half years of doing various forms of IF:

• The longer i fast when cutting, the easier the cutting will be (I fast around 20 hours every day when cutting)
• It's easier to eat 1000-2000 kcal a day (a huge deficit for me) than trying to eat at maintenance calories. I rarely have maintenance days, only surplus days
• I can take zero to low carbs and high carbs, but don't give me medium carbs! The hunger caused by medium carb days is something many of my friends have noticed, and I see it popping up a lot on various forums.
• The best way to feel like a superhero while cutting is utilizing only protein days with a long fast. For me, +20 hours fasting and 1400 grams of coocked minsed meat before bed (Cooking minsed meat the right way will decrease the fat amount to around 10%).
• Recipe for success: Only protein day followed by an epic workout day with an epic carb load. Rippedness level 9000 is behind the door.
• I workout fasted (with bcaa:s) almost every time, but every now and then I have a pre-workout meal just to see if the world has changed. I haven't seen any reliable benefits to start eating pre-workout meals more often.
• Fasting has allowed me to slack when I feel like it: I can go to visit my family and eat 10 000 kcal a day if I feel like it without feeling any guilt. I know it will lose the fat in a couple of weeks.
• My psychopatic tendencies have increased: I have almost completely stopped relating to people who whine about being hungry, and have zero empathy for them.

Aaro, on your "protein days", are you only eating meat and veggies? No carbs on these days? Gross (haha, jk).

Also, are you still sticking to these guidelines, today?

I started IF about 5 weeks ago and I really like it. After the first week it becomes really easy and you don't even think about it. I just skip breakfast and eat around 2-3pm. I'm cutting and pretty short so I'm taking in about 1600 cals. Eating two 600-700 cal meals and a protien shake keeps me feeling full and having enough energy to work out. 

Why are you fasting?  I've found that answering that question determines the type of fast you should go with.  So far I've found dozens of different types of fasts all with different purposes.

Tim Ferris, Dominic D'Agostino, and Peter Attia are the three names I've looked into the most regarding fasting and ketogenic diets.  Tim uses fasting to get into a Ketogenic state, Peter appears to eat once a day, Dominic uses a modified fast to stay in ketosis.  But being in ketosis doesn't mean that you're fasting.  Fasting was just a means to get there.

Yesterday I was talking to a health food store employee and she was talking about serveral people she knew who were doing a "juicing/cleanse" fast for 30 days.  Meh.  Not for me.

I've also read about certain "warriors" who eat once a day because their jobs may require them to go longer without food.  So they train their bodies to live that way. 

Others go with a 16 hour fast 8 hour feeding or a 20/4 fast/feed in order to promote anabolic-leanness states. 

My point being, specific goals may help others be specific with the recommendations.  Fasting is a very broad subject.