F1 Seems to be Geared Towards Endurance Instead of Strength

Sorry for the long topic title.

I am a little confused with F1's programming. Most movements seem to be geared towards a person building up endurance and being able to complete many reps for a given movement. Is this why it is considered the foundation? (i.e. we need this endurance foundation to build the strength we need for maximal effort moves)

I am perplexed because in my limited knowledge it seems most programs built to make people strong (our long term goal) START with people performing low reps at a higher intensity. I am wondering why there is a difference.

Any insight appreciated.

i'm one to overcomplicate things, so ill keep it short and sweet.

it's not just strength, endurance, agility, etc that we're learning in GST but Fundamental Body Positions. protraction in planche, elbows locked and rings turned out in the RTO Support, PPT in front lever, these patterns are frequently duplicated throughout your workout. you'll need PPT in your planche, HS, Front lever, for example.

since these movements are a pattern, most times considered novel by adults who don't have the mobility to perform them and even if it isn't novel, it's still a tall order to think that holding a Hollow Hold for 3-5 sets of 60s will translate to being able to do say 5x5r of a body lever because the demands of a Front Lever are much higher. first we learn the position, then we raise it to a standard that is actually considered "good enough" and "good enough" is a small piece of what we could be doing. frequently has discussion of actual gymnastic training has been shared by coach and a set of 15min AG walks or a single set of 10min planks as warm up been shared though the AG walks im sure by this point was either a warm up or a cool down after the actual WOD or technical gymnastic work.

we're adults, starting with deficits so perhaps the 5 sets of 60s or 60r may seem hard but when put in perspective with what gymnasts are doing, we're barely getting our feet wet. 5sets of 60s is a godsend.

the other point is the magic of the connective tissue(ligaments, tendons, bone) and the time it is given to adapt while working through the progressions. literally, the first time i experienced being able to do something "hard" was with wrist pushups and i was absolutely blown away that working on easier progressions created the conditions to be able to do some for reps. it's freaky cool.

You have people coming into this program from many lifestyles. The higher rep, lower intensity work is great to address range of motion and movement deficits. Also, as touched on by Keilani, you will begin to build connective tissue and will also be placed into basic gymnastic positions that are best learned with minimal load. Don't worry, the intensity picks up pretty quickly.

The main point is the body shapes, which have to be thoroughly drummed into your head. One way of looking it is "I have to build endurance to hold a hollow and do it for 60 rocks 5 times" but you should think of it "I have to build such a good hollow that holding it for 60 rocks 5 times is feasible". 

Some of it is building connective tissue which takes longer than building strength and some is building a work capacity so that later on you can train harder movements. A lot of it is also mobility and some of it, yes, it's also about building the mental focus to think about training in the long-term. 

I find that F1 is very philosophical in that it answers many such doubts by itself. If it's too easy then you just test it and move on to a harder progression. If you're not able to test that progression's standard that's because that progression is what you need to be doing . It's very geared into attacking and exposing your weaknesses. There's usually also a gap between what movements you are able to do and those you should be training. 

It does pretty much evolve later to harder progressions where the standard is 5x5 which is more like you're thinking of. 

All this said doesn't mean you can't play around with some harder movements as long as you avoid some which have the potential to harm you if you're not ready (like back lever, ring strength, etc...) and you don't lose focus on what's training and what's play.

Keilani Gutierrez said:

i'm one to overcomplicate things, so ill keep it short and sweet.

it's not just strength, endurance, agility, etc that we're learning in GST but Fundamental Body Positions. protraction in planche, elbows locked and rings turned out in the RTO Support, PPT in front lever, these patterns are frequently duplicated throughout your workout. you'll need PPT in your planche, HS, Front lever, for example.

since these movements are a pattern, most times considered novel by adults who don't have the mobility to perform them and even if it isn't novel, it's still a tall order to think that holding a Hollow Hold for 3-5 sets of 60s will translate to being able to do say 5x5r of a body lever because the demands of a Front Lever are much higher. first we learn the position, then we raise it to a standard that is actually considered "good enough" and "good enough" is a small piece of what we could be doing. frequently has discussion of actual gymnastic training has been shared by coach and a set of 15min AG walks or a single set of 10min planks as warm up been shared though the AG walks im sure by this point was either a warm up or a cool down after the actual WOD or technical gymnastic work.

we're adults, starting with deficits so perhaps the 5 sets of 60s or 60r may seem hard but when put in perspective with what gymnasts are doing, we're barely getting our feet wet. 5sets of 60s is a godsend.

the other point is the magic of the connective tissue(ligaments, tendons, bone) and the time it is given to adapt while working through the progressions. literally, the first time i experienced being able to do something "hard" was with wrist pushups and i was absolutely blown away that working on easier progressions created the conditions to be able to do some for reps. it's freaky cool.

Beautifully stated, Keilani.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thank you for the responces Keilani Gutierrez, dritar, and Gavin S. I keep forgetting how important it is to build up the conective tissue to prepare for the harder moves.

That being said, assuming one allready has the connective tissue needed to perform the more instense movements, would you agree that it would be in a persons best interest to go straight into performing moves and movements that can only be done for a short time or small number of reps since this is the end goal? Why would the foundational moves need to be held for long periods? (sorry if this seems like a pathalogical question, im genuinely curious)

In an attemp to answer my own question based on your responses, is it necessary because the harder moves need more than just pure strength to be performed? (e.g. mobility, flexability, teqhnique, balance, coordination, [connective tissue]... which is what F1 attempts to supply)

Regards,

Eddie Ball

Like I said it answers by itself. If you're ready to perform the more intense movements you should be able to do the mastery and mobility. Maybe a month to rebuild some endurance, but hardly a long time. If you can't it's because you shouldn't be training those more intense movements, even if you can perform them (this is an important point to remember, just because you're able to do something doesn't mean it's the best to train it). 

That's the foundation approach atleast. In general, yeah, advanced GST is not just a matter of strength, it's a matter of mobility, technique, connective tissue preparation. For example, back lever is easy in terms of strength, easier than front lever for example, however it's stressful on the elbows for adults, so it's recommended that one masters atleast rope climbs to ensure that the elbow is ready. Some people may be able to get away with it, most will develop elbow tendinitis which will really hamper your training and some unluckier ones may have a "oh-snap" moment on their elbows, so it's probably not worth the risk. 

It also bears saying that Foundation is not always strictly progressive. For example HBP progressions go from horizontal pressing (incline pushups, pushups, pseudo-planche pushups) to dips. The first dip you do is bench dips. Many people find that bench dips are much easier than strength wise than the pseudo-planche pushups. I could probably do the bench dip mastery in my sleep but I'm still struggling with the PPP progression as I refine the lean and hollow position (and it's simply harder strength wise). But the bench dips are there because they're building and testing shoulder mobility (which a lot of people lack) that you'll need later on for the korean dips and in general to maintain balance in your shoulder girdle. So it's also not a matter of looking at an advanced progression and saying "I can do that so I can skip the previous ones". You're only ready to skip a progression if you can demonstrate that you can do it with correct form, for the prescribed reps and in the foundation manner (mobility as rest), it's really that simple. I know I took a swift quick right in the ego when I failed to demonstrate that I could perform RC/PE3 even though I thought I was ready to train difficult pullup variations...

Foundation is really not so much about the cool moves at the end but about building, well, the GST foundations, so that includes strength, mobility, flexibility, body awareness, work capacity and even mentally the drive to work so much on something that you find difficult till you succeed. 

You had me at 'connective tissue'...

This is a revelation for me. 

8 weeks in and I can feel my structure changing. Better in the squat, I stand taller, I can lock out above my shoulders better etc.

I now realise that getting the foundation (through the prescribed reps) can only help my long term strength gains.

Great question, great responses. Thanks guys. 

GymBud23 if you haven't, go listen to the first podcast Coach Summer did with Rob Wolf.  Listen to them all but especially the first one where the discussion follows along these lines.

the research I've seen on the topic also suggests that connective tissue adapts more quickly from volume rather than intensity, especially in the presence of lactic acid. I don't understand the mechanism of action, but that's largely irrelevant. Also, the higher volume encourages hypertrophy. This will allow for greater (and faster) strength gains down the road, as the larger a muscles cross sectional size, the stronger it can theoretically become. Once you have a base of hypertrophy, training the CNS to recruit more muscle fibers is how you make a large muscle into a strong muscle. Which is exactly how the later progressions in F are designed to work. It's the same principle as "novice gains." It's why programs like Starting Strength see such fast strength gains. It's also the reason SS uses sets of 5, rather than sets of 3 or 1, so that you can continue to grow while you do the program instead of just training the CNS. Lastly, movements requiring high levels of CNS efficiency are much more fatiguing than those that require little CNS efficiency. The higher volume work at the beginning creates a base of work capacity that will allow you to handle the CNS load of the later elements. So there's your exercise science justification for the higher volume work.

dritar, thank you for the response. That answer makes it all the more clear.

Ryan Reynolds, did not know such podcasts existed. Just watched one from Barbell Shrugged

and am aiming to listen to the one I think you refered to soon (http://robbwolf.com/2014/01/21/episode-213-guest-coach-christopher-sommer/) Definately going to try and get some of my fellow hokie gymnasts to watch as I think most would benefit.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

Seminole 4 said:

the research I've seen on the topic also suggests that connective tissue adapts more quickly from volume rather than intensity, especially in the presence of lactic acid. I don't understand the mechanism of action, but that's largely irrelevant. Also, the higher volume encourages hypertrophy. This will allow for greater (and faster) strength gains down the road, as the larger a muscles cross sectional size, the stronger it can theoretically become. Once you have a base of hypertrophy, training the CNS to recruit more muscle fibers is how you make a large muscle into a strong muscle. Which is exactly how the later progressions in F are designed to work. It's the same principle as "novice gains." It's why programs like Starting Strength see such fast strength gains. It's also the reason SS uses sets of 5, rather than sets of 3 or 1, so that you can continue to grow while you do the program instead of just training the CNS. Lastly, movements requiring high levels of CNS efficiency are much more fatiguing than those that require little CNS efficiency. The higher volume work at the beginning creates a base of work capacity that will allow you to handle the CNS load of the later elements. So there's your exercise science justification for the higher volume work.

That makes sense. Neve thought of it like that. Thanks Seminole 4