MN PE1 iM Form and Advice

I've been struggling with the stiff legged windmill and now I am experiencing low back pain on my left side in the sciatic nerve area after performing them, which leads me to believe that my poor form is the reason for the pain. I was previously diagnosed with a degenerative disc in my lumbar spine (L5) about 6 months ago and completed physical therapy which alleviated the symptoms prior to starting foundations. Now I am experiencing similar pain to 6 months ago, but not as severe. 6 months ago I had a severe limp walking now I can walk fine, but I am experiencing occasional pain on the left side of my lower back.

 

With that said, I have two questions.

 

1) Does my form in the video (video: https://youtu.be/lwFr2w2rrv4 ) show any obvious flaws in my form that would cause this pain? If not are the any other exercises that could cause these symptoms?

 

2) What would you recommend moving forward? Right now I plan on resting until the symptoms lessen, but I am not sure if I should continue to work with the windmills or look for a substitute progress?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Not a doctor, PT, or anything else relevant... I do have asymptomatic herniated l4-l5 and l5-s1 but that doesn't make me anything more than an interested party..

You should go talk to your doctor or PT. It's hard to tell from your form but I suspect that in an effort to get range or stretch in your hamstrings, you are actually flexing your lumbar spine and the disc material is moving against the nerve, giving you pain.

There are other ways to get a stretch in the hamstrings and adductors. In some of these it will be easier to avoid the flexion in your spine. But for now I would rest and go back to your PT exercises, which should have included some basic stretches for this region.

You might want to follow this thread for some thoughts on herniated disks.

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/20939-slipped-disc-in-lower-back-now-what/

 

As for the windmill, a few ideas

 

- Don't be concerned about touching the floor, only go down so far as you can with a straight back

 

- Turn your leading foot out even more and really hinge sideways at the hips. Hitch your hips and shift them so your weight moves more on the back leg.

 

- It will feel that your body is leaning more to the side and less forward than you are now.

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

Marc,

 

What stretches do you use for your hamstrings and adductors to avoid flexion in your spine? My PT only recommended the cobra pose (http://yogitayoga.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/cobra-pose.jpg) for stretching and gave me "core stability" exercises like the plank and shoulder bridge. 

 

Cole,

 

I think my biggest issue was leaning straight forward while turning my hips,. Once I get cleared by my PT, I'll keep that in mind for the windmills.

 

Thanks again for your help.

The cobra pose was by far the most effective thing for reducing my back pain. In yoga, it's cobra, but in the physical therapy world, it seems to come from Robin McKenzie, and takes on the name McKenzie press up. It's a pretty old exercise for discs that cause pain under flexion, but it seems to work well.

Again, not a doctor or anything, but here is my strategy for dealing with this. I herniated 2 discs almost 4 years ago, and after PT, I was in little or no pain, but was scared to do much exercise. Occasionally, when I did do work (hollow holds, etc,) I would feel th disc pain act up. So the following is roughly how I dealt with it.

My read of what you say about the PT suggests that th exercises are for getting and keeping you out of pain. Foundation may be a bit further down the road from that initial goal. Discs take a long time to heal, and the PT exercises are really designed to put your spine and th edisc material in the appropriate place to allow for healing. The GB stuff has you doing some work under flexion, which may be too much for you at this stage.

First, the core stability stuff is super important. So bird dogs, planks, glute bridges are all really important for building strength and stability with a neutral spine. The dowel drills are important ... Feeling the dowel make contact at three points to ensure neutral spine during plank and bird dog is great.

Next, learning to hinge at the hips. Many good video tutorials exist for this. Again, this can help build strength in the spinal extensors. There is a good yoga based online training for back pain that I found helpful, also called Foundation training... Look up an exercise called the Founder. Again, dowel exercises during hip hinges give you th feedback to ensure you are neutral. The hip hinge work will stretch your hamstrings a bit. There are a number of other sources for hamstring stitches. Kit Laughlins lunge hamstring stretch is great. He has a number of other lower body stretches that work well. I haven't tried the Stretch series here, but I'm thinking about buying it because I like the 45 minute class format.

Further core stability work is helpful after plank, etc. Rotational stability work, prone plate switches, etc. Tony Gentilcore has some great stuff on this, as does Stuart McGill. Basically, before we can move the spine voluntarily, we want to build strength to keep it stable.

This is all good for tightening and strengthening the muscles that support your spine, but you will also want to stretch the back as well, so things like pike prep work will put your spine under unloaded flexion. Tread slowly here, because the positions may exacerbate your problem, but as you build stability, building flexibility in these muscles will help, and I think it breaks up scar tissue in the muscles as well... Your body tightens up a lot to keep you from making things worse. The FLPE1 IM is good here, as are various yoga poses.. child's pose, forward folds, etc.

That's where I am now. I have no regular pain, and very rarely get back discomfort doing exercises. I'm doing the Russian Twists with only 5 lbs, and will work up much more before I feel comfortable with rotation in my lower spine. Same with Jefferson curls... Not there yet, but my view is that if your spine has been compromised, you need to start slowly here.

I'm sure some people would disagree with some of these recommendations, but that's what I've learned. Always still learning though...

Thanks for the advice Marc.

 

My plan for the immediate future is to work on my core stability, mobility up and downstream of my low back, and then maybe bodyweight squats, push-ups, and rows with an emphasis on a stable spine. But I'm going to consult with my physical therapist first.

 

Like you highlighted my biggest obstacle is learning to hinge at the hips. I may look into some personal training session with a yoga instructor for better feedback and troubleshooting. Also, I never thought of using a dowel for this! I'll definitely utilize this tool!

 

Like you mentioned, slowly and steadily. I believe I made the mistake of jumping right into the tuck-up, windmills, etc. right after I finished my physical therapy.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Steve, you hit the nail on the head with looking at upstream and downstream mobility. The biggest issues I had when I started fitness work after injury were all related to mobility. If your low back is a problem, your body tightens up everything, and when you go to do movements, it will find looseness wherever it can. So thoracic spine, shoulder, and hip work is imperative.

Good luck.