Hollow Body, PPT and the Scapulae

In working with GST and in posting my videos it has come to my attention that these factors  in the subject line are far and away what limits me most. I've incorporated the stretch series and am seeing progress in ankle and hip mobility (with sPL/pe1-im and the SLS progressions); adding in F2 mobilities for HBP and dropping weight on HS mobilities have helped my shoulders to rehab almost fully; and overall my core strength is progressing the fastest. My issue, however, is in maintaining the hollow body on things like FL/PE2; and PPT along with depressed and protracted scapulae on sPL/PE1 and HBP/PE2. I know what these body positions in effect look like, but getting there and maintaining them myself is another matter.

I am wondering if there are any simplified cues or things to look for when doing these basic F1 movements that I can work on to increase my rate of progress. Do I stay scapulae protracted throughout concentric and eccentric movements in HBP? Is the lower back rounded in PPT or is just abs in, glutes tight with no lower back arch?

Such advice may come from outsourced links, I'm just trying to figure out a best-practices towards maintaining and implementing these positions as it seems they are needed for almost every upper body focused movement (HBP, FL, RC); and further that I'm not that good at staying in these positions through either dynamic or static movements. It's holding me back from making further strength gains and progress on Foundations, so any insight is welcome. Thanks

1. in pushups, on the way down focus on depression. it'll be hard to keep yourself protracted without it turning into shoulders rolled forward, so just hold the depression on the way down, press back up, protract at the top.

2. if you do PPT, everything is curling inwards. the ribs try to touch the pelvis which will feel like it's going "downward" and when you brace with the inner abdomen it will feel like it's going "inward." so downward and inward. mind to keep this position and breathe steadily. if you can't hold this position perfectly on the wall, on the floor will feel pretty intense. so squeeze out every ounce of the static hold you can, even if you're doing one set of 20seconds. it's really funky to hold it while laying supine or prone, so inverted can be pretty tough. it takes time to develop.

3. you gotta work on your weaknesses. i started needing to do 3x3 pushups cause the iM would murder me.....with 2.2kg. >_> put in the work and eventually progress. keep yourself honest, itll come

Thanks.

 

Yeah, I noticed profound improvement on HS/PE1-im by going back to almost no weight on the bar and then seeing my strength go from 1.25 lbs to 3.75lbs in three workouts (with the minimum weight for mastery being 5lbs and that I've spent 8 months struggling on the im this was profound). As for the hollow body and ppt, I may, again, drop back further on sPL/PE1 and HBP/PE2 just to be sure that I'm maintaining the proper body alignment through these movements. I will also do my best to acknowledge the cues which you mentioned for each movement.

 

It's frustrating to think that I'm held up by 3 sets of 3 reps of pushups, because that has never really been a problem; but if that's what it takes for me to get a proper hollow body, I guess then that that's what it takes. I'll follow up after a couple workouts of incorporating this further, even though I started this cycle with a greater intention towards locked elbows, PPT and scapular depression and protraction they have still proved to be elusive.

On a side note, am I correct in thinking that,

 

protraction = scapulae pulled apart, shoulders roll forward (akin to what a bodybuilder may do in trying flare their latissimus muscles?)

depression = scapulae are kept down in a manner opposite of shrugging the shoulders to the ears (sorry for the poor description, it's not easily described

it happens. i was doing incline pushups for what seemed like an eternity because i suffered a shoulder dislocation that i never got attended when I was 15 and it left me with a very tight and extremely weak right shoulder. i feel like such a stud doing more than 10 pushups in a set now. haha! so i hear your frustration. its humbling to kinda sit back and go "okay this was a good cycle" when you're struggling at the third week.

and yes you're getting the idea with the protraction and depression.

In analogy to the "belt buckle to the chin" hint for PPT, I heard (or read) the advice for scapular depression as trying to put your scapulae into your back pockets. Maybe that helps

louieclemente said:

In analogy to the "belt buckle to the chin" hint for PPT, I heard (or read) the advice for scapular depression as trying to put your scapulae into your back pockets. Maybe that helps

side pockets maybe, but idk about back pockets? am i understanding this right or ? i've tried this back pocket cue and too often i'll see the athlete do retraction + depression and extend the thoracic spine, which is why im asking

The "back pockets" cue, often used in the fitness industry, is trying to put the shoulders back and down (retraction and depression) and is also accompanied by thoracic extension to reach the desired position. It makes for a very visual cue if a person is having trouble understanding where to move stuff. However, in this case it doesn't seem appropriate.

 

Daniel, you got the right idea with depression. Opposite of shrugged, away from the ears toward the hips etc.. A perfect example would be a support hold on rings or parallel bars where you are pushing your shoulders down to be tall.

 

As for the protraction, scapulae pulled apart yes, but shoulders rolling forward is not necessary. For pure protraction you want the top and bottom of your shoulder blades to move forward as evenly as possible,  as they do in a front lat spread you were referring to. Shoulders rolling forward entails some degree of anterior tilt of the scapulae which is not desirable in sPL cueing. The serratus anterior and lower traps aren't firing optimally in this position because both are technically being stretched in that position. When firing on all cylinders these two muscle groups are actually performing the complete opposite, posterior tilt of the scapulae. Hence the talk about heavy (lower) trap involvement in planche work. 

Thanks. This all makes much more sense and, sadly, reiterates how much more work is required of me to get the hang of these and instinctivize these holds.

Thanks Niklas (and Keilani) for pointing that out - I honestly never thought about it from a pro-/retraction pov but it actually makes a lot of sense.

I still find it helpful for visualizing the caudally pointed part oft the movement though.

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

 

It's frustrating to think that I'm held up by 3 sets of 3 reps of pushups, because that has never really been a problem; but if that's what it takes for me to get a proper hollow body, I guess then that that's what it takes. 

Sometimes you just have to go there to really feel the muscles being worked.  i went there with HBP/PE2 and RC/PE1 due to feeling frustrated in the 'plateau' state.  A fellow GBer mentioned the TUT system (time under tension).  So I took a chance and went there.  Of course as time went by, reps went up and my body naturally went from TUT to regular motion somewhere around 6-9 reps.  I feel it was great for my shoulders as well (tension put there in slow motion feels a little more heavier).  

 

Now I'm doing HBP/PE2 and today for instance it felt like I was going 125% with it (at least in comparison to a normal pushup).  Starting from the top, my body is in the hollow position and as I go down the hollow goes away, but coming back up I'm back in hollow and it feels like no other and I feel a different type of flexion in my chest as I come up (that may be hard to explain).  And although I'm supposed to be at the 15 rep range, of course I would pause after 10-12 reps to catch my breath after the first set, but as I keep going through the remainder of reps, the 'hollow back' pressing feeling at the top is still there.