Body levers - form question

I had a quick form check question about the Body Lever. 

I'm noticing in some videos - that the hips "break" slightly on the ascent back up to the start position, usually around at around 45 degrees or so, but obviously not on the descent. Is this "standard"? I know we should endeavor to remain as flat as possible and not break at the hips or become hollow (as hollowing would make it a dragon flag)? Can somebody please shed some light on this? If the hips aren't supposed to break - I need to revisit this movement to master it. Note that I am not talking about a major break or bend, just a slight one, maybe a few degrees. Thanks in advance! 

The stronger you are the less break will occur.

Dragon flags and Body levers are the same. Dragon flags is not an exercise that is used with arch body while Body levers an exercise done with hollow body. Street workout calls Body levers Dragon flags while the gymnastic world calls Dragon flags Body levers. Most from the street workout world does them with an arch body, simply because they either lack PPT strenght or does not know how to PPT.

You need to keep a flat back in both portions of the movement.

Are you training Foundation? If so it's best to have this moved to the appropriate forum, otherwise people will be limited in the responses they can give.

Or insufficient glute activation or tight hip flexors.

I think back lever is matter of proper preparation. If you master foundation you can probably BL on first try (not safe necessarily though). It's a matter of proper hollow engagement and tendon tension. 

Apologies, I didn't realize you were referring to body levers

I thought previously it was just about abs, but with some coaching I've come to realize that glute tension is equally important for maintaining proper position.

Body levers should be done with a hollow body position. When you say break in the hips, that sounds like piking. The hips shouldn't be allowed to pike, you should remain hollow.

Thanks everyone!

Stephen M said:

Body levers should be done with a hollow body position. When you say break in the hips, that sounds like piking. The hips shouldn't be allowed to pike, you should remain hollow.

 Stephen, regarding your comment - I'm trying to keep the natural arch in my lower back, and not be completely hollow. If this was done with a complete hollow, they would be a breeze. And I'm not piking so much as I "hollow out more" for a split second in the descent. Its ever so slight, but i know with all movements we should strive for perfection and mastery - which is why i asked. 

Stigz said:

but i know with all movements we should strive for perfection and mastery - which is why i asked. 

Then maintain a completely hollow body and don't arch your back.

Regardless, for piking or a lack of ppt, glute activation should be the focus.

thecolin said:

Then maintain a completely hollow body and don't arch your back.

 

Regardless, for piking or a lack of ppt, glute activation should be the focus.

Well this changes everything - so for clarification: should i have a natural arch in my lower back as in when you're standing, or should i be hollow with a "flat lower back" the entire time.... If its the latter, this move is easy for me. If it's the former, i need to work on fighting a slight pike.... 

Flat lower back, no pike.

thecolin said:

Then maintain a completely hollow body and don't arch your back.

 

Regardless, for piking or a lack of ppt, glute activation should be the focus.

Completely off-topic, but this is a cue I needed.  Thanks.

Tried some dragon flag pulls Uploaded some footage on my facebook account:

https://www.facebook.com/GymPerf/videos/vb.529048093898078/676441889158697/?type=2&theater

You're clearly arching at the bottom of the movement. this is wrong. usually reflects unprepared core to this level of tension

Alessandro Mainente said:

You're clearly arching at the bottom of the movement. this is wrong. usually reflects unprepared core to this level of tension

Thanks man. I will focus on that the next time I try them...

By the way, I suffer from anterioir pelvic tilt. Could this be the reason for it?

GymPerformance said:

Thanks man. I will focus on that the next time I try them...

 

By the way, I suffer from anterioir pelvic tilt. Could this be the reason for it?

This is almost certainly the primary reason for it, aside from the fact that your core muscles are not prepared. I'm not sure, but I think that senior members would recommend going through F1 before trying to do body levers, unless you carefully do very scaled down forms, but at that point you're really just doing F1, but with less organization and more improper form.

Actually, even pro gymnasts arching their back while doing them...:

what's your thoughts on that?

These are not body levers, but a variation that involves movement between PPT and APT.

Jake is also a long time US National Team member and an Olympian.  Bottom line; he is ready for this variation and you guys are not.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

More transfer of power rather than re-engagement.  

Athletically the torso only has two ways to generate power:  

1) moving from arch to hollow (flexion)

2) moving from hollow to arch (extension)

All other movements (throwing, jumping, lifting, twisting) are simply variations of these two basic patterns.

I have always found it interesting that most athletes train the hell out their weight lifting while in extension, and their core while in flexion and then completely fail to addess their ability to move from one to the other while under load; which is in reality the common theme of all athletic activities.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Oh gosh, so true! The honey is in the "transitions." Inability to absorb and redirect forces via torso (or hips, legs… for that matter) is one of the weakest links in fitness, along with scapulae strength and some common sense, eh.

Such a great point Coach, makes me think of your arch hollow snaps 

9 hours ago, Wesley Tan said:

Such a great point Coach, makes me think of your arch hollow snaps 

LOL.  

The guys used to have to do the arch/hollow snaps around the perimeter of a 40'x40' floor.  One side was forward snaps, the next was backward snaps, then one side, then the other.  

Due to my generous nature, I also allowed the stronger athletes to place a weight belt around their waists in order to give them the opportunity to enjoy challenging themselves.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Just out of curiosity Coach, is there an equivalent exercise for the hollow -> arch transition ?

4 hours ago, Christian Nogueira said:

Just out of curiosity Coach, is there an equivalent exercise for the hollow -> arch transition ?

 

If I remember correctly there is a body line exercise in H1 which takes you from pike to hollow to arch and back again for reps. Not so much power transfer, but rather a way to learn proper form.

In my opinion you need solid hollow and arch strength to benefit from these exercises in the first place.