MetCon/Cardio coupled with GST?

Hey Everyone, 

 

Been making some solid progress on foundational movements, and going thru the paces to get my baseline. As it is now, I'm doing GST 3-4 days a week, and cycling Wendler for Squats and Deadlifts until I get thru all the progressions to where i NEED to work on Mastery (so far, smooth sailing, have tested out of most of what I'm working on in the last few weeks). I am going to dial back Wendler when things get very difficult, and am toying with incorporating HS1. 

 

My question is what does everyone do for aerobic conditioning/cardio/metcon? Depending on feel, i usually do my GST and maybe a quick WOD (more often GST smokes my CNS), but I wanted to incorporate running/rowing since my cardio needs some work. 

 

I am on the threshold of Medium and Low recovery (heavy volume with OLY lifting, i need a while to recover, bodyweight metcons, i can bounce back). Given this - do you all think it would be ok to incorporate some of this on the days when I feel good after GST? or should i keep it to active recovery days on my days off, and just go easy on the rower or road?

 

Any info is appreciated, trying to find a nice balance of GST/Bodyweight work, metcons/cardio and most important - rest...  

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly does "bodyweight metcon" entail?

In general, it's a good idea to do 20-30 minutes of light to moderate cardio, 2-3 days a week as a complement to any strength program.

Joshua Slocum said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly does "bodyweight metcon" entail?

In general, it's a good idea to do 20-30 minutes of light to moderate cardio, 2-3 days a week as a complement to any strength program.

Joshua, 

No ignorance at all - its a CrossFit term (hold your boos lol)... Basically a quick metcon without a barbell - Cindy for instance: which is 5 Pullups, 10 Pushups, 15 air squats = 1 rd. AMRAP for 20 minutes. Just something to utilize bodyweight movements but not overly stress my joints and muscles while getting some metabolic conditioning in. 

Hi Stigz,

 

I would recommend jumping rope, running, swimming, rowing, or biking for cardiovascular-specific work rather than a CrossFit-style "met-con" if you are committed to making progress in your Gymnastics Strength Training. A workout like Cindy, for instance, is a bit too much like your strength training in this case, and it will increase your need for recovery and delay your rate of progress in GST. Does that make sense?

 

Think of it this way... if an Olympic weightlifter did 5 sets of 3 snatches and 5 sets of 2 clean & jerks for his main strength training, he or she wouldn't then go and do 20 minutes of as many snatches and clean & jerks as possible, just for the sake of breathing hard. (A CrossFitter might, but that is specific to his or her chosen sport / activity.) There are better options out there in terms of safety, recovery, and metabolic stress. Hope this helps!

 

Best,

Chris

There was some threads before about cardio, try to search for them. Cardio is important for many reasons in gst but to much will lead to loosing some strenght.

Stigz said:

Joshua, 

No ignorance at all - its a CrossFit term (hold your boos lol)... Basically a quick metcon without a barbell - Cindy for instance: which is 5 Pullups, 10 Pushups, 15 air squats = 1 rd. AMRAP for 20 minutes. Just something to utilize bodyweight movements but not overly stress my joints and muscles while getting some metabolic conditioning in. 

I agree with what Chris said. If you're working on Foundation, I'm not sure what you would expect to gain from doing this that you're not already getting. It seems like it would just wear you down in almost exactly the same way your Foundation workouts already do [or should be], thus prolonging recovery and interfering with making gains. 

 

Always remember: recovery is what actually makes you stronger. If you do too much too soon, you're just interfering with your gains. 

Focus on what Chris said. Running, Swimming, and Jumping rope, or a combination thereof. Around 3-5 times a week will be sufficient. I'd avoid Metcons, as that is some strength work and not just pure cardio. (And will interfere with your recovery) Personally I'd just run 3-4 times and week and swim the other 3 days.

Something Like This;

Mon- Hill Sprints

(8x40 yards, 4-6x100 meters, 2-3x200 meters) (Try to get a good steep hill, ideally for the 40 yards you'd have around a 16-18% in line, for the 100 have a 12-14% incline and for the 200 have a 8-10% in line) (I don't reccomened this on Treadmills)

Tue- Swim

Wed- Long Run (8-12 Miles)

Thur- Swim

Fri- Tempo Run (4-7 Miles, run at a pace where you are forced to speak in a broken rhythm)

Sat- Swim

Sun- Rest/Recovery Run (No more than 4 miles)

For Swimming, you can do whatever you want, Id use Butterfly for 50-100m Sprints, Backstroke and Freestyle for 100-400m and Breaststroke for Recovery. You can swim straight for 1-2 hours, or do intervals of some kind.

(If you would rather jump rope instead, then replace either running or Swimming with 30-45 min jump rope on those days, personally I'd just run and swim)

Deload your cardio in sync with your strength work every 4 weeks, doing only 50% of the volume.

I've added 3 mile runs to my schedule with a plan to increase that to 6-9 miles a week. I've noticed improvement in my workouts.

Done correctly, a Foundation workout IS Metcon. At least F1-F2 ish. Unless you already have a huge work capacity and strength.

Dylan Robertson said:

Focus on what Chris said. Running, Swimming, and Jumping rope, or a combination thereof. Around 3-5 times a week will be sufficient. I'd avoid Metcons, as that is some strength work and not just pure cardio. (And will interfere with your recovery) Personally I'd just run 3-4 times and week and swim the other 3 days.

Something Like This;

Mon- Hill Sprints

(8x40 yards, 4-6x100 meters, 2-3x200 meters) (Try to get a good steep hill, ideally for the 40 yards you'd have around a 16-18% in line, for the 100 have a 12-14% incline and for the 200 have a 8-10% in line) (I don't reccomened this on Treadmills)

Tue- Swim

Wed- Long Run (8-12 Miles)

Thur- Swim

Fri- Tempo Run (4-7 Miles, run at a pace where you are forced to speak in a broken rhythm)

Sat- Swim

Sun- Rest/Recovery Run (No more than 4 miles)

For Swimming, you can do whatever you want, Id use Butterfly for 50-100m Sprints, Backstroke and Freestyle for 100-400m and Breaststroke for Recovery. You can swim straight for 1-2 hours, or do intervals of some kind.

(If you would rather jump rope instead, then replace either running or Swimming with 30-45 min jump rope on those days, personally I'd just run and swim)

Deload your cardio in sync with your strength work every 4 weeks, doing only 50% of the volume.

You tell him to avoid metcons because they impede recovery, and then you immediately proceed to suggest 6 aerobic workouts/week in addition to foundation. Wow. Dude, that's just... Do You have superpowers or something?

Ravn said:

You tell him to avoid metcons because they impede recovery, and then you immediately proceed to suggest 6 aerobic workouts/week in addition to foundation. Wow. Dude, that's just... Do You have superpowers or something?

Obviously you build up to that. Start out with maybe 3 cardio workout and slowly build up to that over a period of months and years. That is the end goal.

To begin with start running 3 times a week for 10 minutes. Then Progess those runs to 30 minutes by adding maybe 1-2 minutes in each run a week.

Once you get to 3x30 then add swimming 1 time on top of that. Build up your swimming and then add another day, build that up, then add another day.

Build everything up slowly.

You can't just jump in the deep end, start from the beginning and work your way up to that.

Once you have 3 days a week of running and 3 days a week of swimming, then you are ready for a more structured schedule.

Work up to the Sprints (Start on a track and build up volume, then hit the hills, lower volume, and build up again.) Start your longs runs at 4-5 miles and build up about .05/.1 mile a week, until you get to 10-12 miles.

Start your Tempo run at 3-4 miles an build up to that the same way you built your long runs, except cap it at 6-8 miles.

Don't even add the Sunday one until you've been doing this for multiple years. (At least 3-4). Once you get that one, start at 2 miles and build that up slowly too.

Swimming is the same way, progress slowly.

If you just jump into that, then you WILL get injured.

Still Deload and do 1/2 volume every 4 weeks.

Example. Long run-

Week 1- 5.0 miles

Week 2- 5.1 miles

Week 3 5.2 Miles

Week 4- 2.6 Miles

Week 5- 5.3 Miles

Week 6- 5.4 Miles

Week 7- 5.5 Miles

Week 8- 2.7 Miles

Etc.

Example- Sprints (at Track) (Progress only 1 additional sprint per week)

Week 1- 4x40y, 2x100m, 1x200m

Week 2- 5x40y, 2x100m, 1x200m

Week 3- 5x40y, 3x100m, 1x200m

Week 4- 3x40y, 2x100m, 1x200m

Week 5- 6x40y, 3x100m, 1x200m

Etc.

(Once you reach full volume on Track, then go do this on hills, but start at week 1 volume)

I currently do 2x bouldering, 3-4x F&H and a run or two per week. Between this, my three kids and the job, I really don't feel like adding more stuff in ;-)

But thanks for the advice!

And you don't have to do that, at a minimum, at least get 3 cardio days. Doesn't matter if its swimming, running, or jumping. (If I was to do just 3/week, then I'd pick swimming.

That thread is posted in several places, do some poking round in the F1 forum

Coach advocated moderate intensity cardio. Note that basic strength training essentially ticks the boxes to be classed as metcon, and dynamic training is shorter/power focus, ie. Sprint style. Jogging is easy for many people ( I prefer to row because I hate it), is accessible, and provides active recovery, as well as priming you for actual trainin without sapping anything you are really going to use.

At the time Coach recommended staying closer to the 6 mile/ week figure, based on the 6-15mile/week figure he picked of Chinese athletes, done as either 3*2 sessions or 2*3. Personally I am enjoying 30 minutes rowing at a modrate pace 2* a week and have noticed the difference.

More tellingly to me, Coach has directly indicated that sprint training in conjunction with foundation should be used as for strength training-- ie. Limited in number of sessions as you would ye average dynamic leg day-- and that sprint style, high intensity used for cardio purposes is inappropriate if GST progress is your primary goal. At least at beginner level.

Obviously that may trade off depending on what your priorities are. If you need to dash for your sport, job or hobby, you (probably) need to dash in training too.

Your milage may vary

I do 20 mins of moderate cardio on the Arc Trainer (like a hiker machine) 3 times per week, before each stretch series.

 

This kills two birds with one stone for me, as I get my cardio in while I get nice and warm for my stretch. Works great for me.