Is less more?

I have been working on F1 for ~12 weeks now on the 3 day per week schedule.  Now that I am into block 3 on most elements I am finding I am not recovering well.  I tweaked my hip doing windmills so I am only training 6 PE1s at the moment and still feel pretty rundown.  

I am not recovering well between workouts and within workouts.  This week I did bent hollow holds for 60s,48s,48s,48s and there was no way I could do 4x12 scapular shrugs because my abs were so fatigued I wasn't able to hold a good plank position.  So I have been doing these on different days because I don't want my ab weakness to prevent my from training my shoulders - Is this ok?

I have also been thinking that it would be nice to use the 4 day per week plan but maybe with less volume(fewer sets) or maybe with more rest between each set - thoughts?

Or maybe sticking to the mastery template reps, and training 4-5 days per week with 1-3 PEs per day and getting 3-5 days rest between each PE - thoughts?

How do you feel after deload weeks ?

Do you do anything else ie any other training ?

How active were you before you started training ?

I asked a similar question here   https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/19089-training-each-element-once-a-week/    and I am going to try 2 Split F1 training sessions per week for the next 3 months as I was finding 2 F1-7 sessions a week brutal.

tfeal said:

How do you feel after deload weeks ?

Do you do anything else ie any other training ?

How active were you before you started training ?

 

I asked a similar question here https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/19089-training-each-element-once-a-week/%C2%A0">TrainingEach Element Once a Week and I am going to try 2 Split F1 training sessions per week for the next 3 months as I was finding 2 F1-7 sessions a week brutal.

I felt good on my first deload but they were also at lower reps/times.  I got sic around the time of my second deload so that week had very little training and I just reset to the beginning of block 2 when I felt better(~10 days)

Only other training is some light stretching and walking at the moment.  When I started F1 I was planning on adding in 1-2 days of CV work but I have held off on that

When I started I hadn't done much of anything other than walking for a few months.

I saw the link you shared and this is what got me started on thinking about my plan - I am open to ideas but training each PE only once per week seem like so little, that is why I was thinking of the other ideas mentioned above

Are you doing 3 sessions of all 7 elements?  The 3 day split is a good option where you do each element 1.5 times per week.  But only doing each element once a week can be very successful too -- especially when you consider your abs are a weak point right now.  You're using your abs a LOT, so they will need time to adapt.  Just about everything you're doing now uses your abs, so consider it a 7-times per week workout....and even more if you're doing H1

Jeremy Huston said:

Are you doing 3 sessions of all 7 elements?  The 3 day split is a good option where you do each element 1.5 times per week.  But only doing each element once a week can be very successful too -- especially when you consider your abs are a weak point right now.  You're using your abs a LOT, so they will need time to adapt.  Just about everything you're doing now uses your abs, so consider it a 7-times per week workout....and even more if you're doing H1

No I am following the 3 day per week plan as described in the course (each PE getting trained once or twice per week and rotating each week - or average 1.5/week as you say)

Well I think I am weak all over  But I am closer to PE1 mastery on bent hollow holds and tuck-ups than on other elements, with RCs being the weakest

I am not doing H1.  I purchased F1 and figured that would be enough of a challenge for a while and so far I was right.  That said I would like to add H1 sometime down the road but I am in no rush.

F1 is a challenge.

In my opinion handstand 1 is more important if you want to progress as a gymnast. Hand balancing is a skill and you have to put in the time to learn how to do it.

Coaches said many times that handstand is a fundamental skill.

I think the trueness of "less is more" depends on a couple of factors that can vary quite a bit. Overall, less is more when your less is of a greater quality than your more. If by adjusting some of the factors I referenced above you can do more while maintaining quality, more becomes more.

First among the factors I've noticed are the fundamental recovery elements. Sleep quality and quantity. Food quality, quantity, and to a slightly lesser extent, timing. You're really wasting a good deal of effort if you haven't experimented with these factors and dialed them in so that they are congruent with both your training and the type of lifestyle you what.

Second, for me there was an initial adaptation phase to GST. On paper it shouldn't tax the body much differently than other forms of strength training, but in my experience it does, particularly in the coordination and what I can only describe as the connective tissue strength department.

I used to think that F7 was absolute misery and overload, so I did splits for a while, then F7 twice a week, then three times, back to twice, and now I'm at three time a week and loving it. I listened to my body and scaled back when needed, but I've always felt I had three good sessions a week in me and that I have that potential in the back of my mind as something to work towards. For me it's either a touch of fatigue from 3X per week or a rusty, out of practice feeling from only 2X. I prefer (and progress) with the former.

Last, and somewhat related to connective issue strength: don't underestimate what a good warmup can so for our workout experience and performance. Jefferson curls and shoulder extensions have done wonders for my whole session, paritculary a pesky compression issue I struggle with.

Again, it's quality over quantity here, but as I've gradually added in this and that over time I find myself warming up for my warmups (bands, heavier bands, weighted mobility, Foundation), and I've yet to hit diminishing returns. All of this doesn't take very long, particularly as your work capacity (another almost mystical aspect of GST) increases.

I've gone on a bit here, but having experienced the same situation as you've described (I think) makes me eager to provide an accurate view of someone who's perhaps a step or two further down the path.

If there's a question of quality, scale back to solidify it and gradually add as much quantity as you can while maintaining that quality. Changing our routine as you get new feedback is part of the experience; embrace it and keep trying and eventually you'll find your balance. Then you'll get fitter and have to find it again. It's fun!

Sven - thanks for your thoughts

I just reread this thread am I am still looking for some more specific advice:)

I also wanted to say that I am eating "clean" and getting lots of sleep but in general I don't seem to recovery as fast from anything as I used to.  I am in the process of losing weight so I have cut back a little on my calories the last 2 but nothing drastic.

As Sven suggest that I should "scale back" - how? I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions on which methods of "scaling back" might be best?

for example

1) keep trying the mastery template and do each PE once per week

2) stick with the M/W/F(each PE 1.5 days per week) and add more rest between each set

3) stick with the M/W/F(each PE 1.5 days per week) and do a fewer sets 

4) stick with the M/W/F(each PE 1.5 days per week) and go back a block and do lower reps schemes again for a month

I expect there is no perfect answer but I still wanted to get the thought of guy/gals who have more experience GB training than me

It really is a matter of experimentation.  When I'm feeling overworked, generally the rule I follow is to reduce the number of sessions rather than the volume or density of a given training session.

If F7 is altogether too much for you now (it was at one time for me), do the split and see what happens.  M/W/F split would be a good place to start.  Personally I think training each element only once per week is less than optimal; I think that most anybody should be able to manage 1.5-2 sessions per week unless there are some real extenuating circumstances at play.

Regarding workout pacing, I think the key thing is to keep the intensity up.  You may have to add in a little extra rest, but I'm not a fan of this.  I think it's better to push until you know you can't do another clean rep, stop a second or two, then continue on repeating the process as necessary.  Always take less rest than you think you need, and stop a second time if you have to in order to complete the set.

You want to find a sweet spot between keeping the intensity/discomfort high (I think this is where adaptation occurs and work capacity increases) while still hitting your target volume.  Personally I've found the best way to do this with most movements is to move as quickly as possible (no rest between sets), keeping in mind that it's okay if you have to take an unscheduled rest mid-set or so.  Move as fast as you can as long as you can and stop for a brief rest when you absolutely have to.

*The one exception I've found to this rule is in movements that are relatively complex and where form tends to deteriorate involuntarily.  ABH, for example.  It's easy to keep quality control high for something like push-ups even when pushing the speed, but for me ABH are such an effort I prefer to put an absolute emphasis on quality with them.  Extension is it's own genre of movement, and training it (especially for zombies) is a little different than training other things.  Extension is a way of life, and getting it back takes a little extra finesse.*

I also found that decreasing the volume jumps recommended in the templates helped me a lot.  Instead of going from 4X48sec to 4x60sec, I'll often add one or two 60sec sets per week.  You can almost always add volume to at least set while keeping good form.

All in all I like option 4.  Do the lower reps with focus on quality, then add volume gradually, perhaps even at a quarter the pace suggested in the template.  You might even consider going from 4X48sec to 1X54sec and 3X48sec (smaller volume increments both in terms of sets increased and the increase made in a set) if you really want to ease in to it.