Some questions

Hi!

Here are some questions i have, i hope you can answer me!

1. Do backlever actually helps learning the planche? ( i know about the dangers of learning backlever while unprepared and I do plan on following these advices, this is just a question I was wondering cause I read it many times)

2. Should I learn hspu, then bowers, then planche pushups or work on all of them at the same time?

3. One of my goals is to perform freestanding hspu, I dont care about learning a real solid freestanding handstand, so my question is : do i have to learn free standing handstands or do the progressions of hspu will give me enough strength to perform freestanding hspu ?

Thanks!

hype said:

Hi!

Here are some questions i have, i hope you can answer me!

1. Do backlever actually helps learning the planche? ( i know about the dangers of learning backlever while unprepared and I do plan on following these advices, this is just a question I was wondering cause I read it many times)

2. Should I learn hspu, then bowers, then planche pushups or work on all of them at the same time?

3. One of my goals is to perform freestanding hspu, I dont care about learning a real solid freestanding handstand, so my question is : do i have to learn free standing handstands or do the progressions of hspu will give me enough strength to perform freestanding hspu ?

Thanks!

1: Yes, but only to some extend.

2: See the Routine Advice sticky

3: Yes, you need a very good handstand before a HSPU. This is mainly to be able to keep your body in the right position during ascend and descend.

thank you very much

p.s. about the routine advice thing, don't want to sound disrespectful but it's really stupid... Ppl come on this forum to seek advice about their training, that's the whole point of a forum, and you're only answer to them is ''buy my product I can't answer'' ... Some ppl don't have the money nor the equipment for it but still want to properly progress, and some ppl like keeping freedom in their training and do things their way, and for them this forum became useless the moment you put that rule.

Just my personal opinion, I understand yours too, I do not doubt the efficiency of foundations but this rule just made the forum very useless.

There is more free GST advice available on the GB forum than anywhere else in the world. No other resource comes even remotely close. If you want our best specific advice for routine construction that has been provided within the GB courses.

If you find that unsatisfactory, then I am sorry to hear that, but you are always free to seek additional advice elsewhere.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

hype said:

 

p.s. about the routine advice thing, don't want to sound disrespectful but it's really stupid... Ppl come on this forum to seek advice about their training, that's the whole point of a forum, and you're only answer to them is ''buy my product I can't answer'' ... Some ppl don't have the money nor the equipment for it but still want to properly progress, and some ppl like keeping freedom in their training and do things their way, and for them this forum became useless the moment you put that rule.

I get it dude. I really do.

What you have to understand is there is no other resource out there on GST than this forum and Coach's programs. 

For a long time Coach gave his advice away for free making his knowledge more accessible to people who don't have a gymnastic background. (And I believe he was one if not the first to do it).  Now (if I am correct!) Coach is focussing more of his time on building up the Gymnast Bodies brand and away from full time coaching. There is plenty of free advice on this forum to get you started (and by your questions, you are very new to GST).

At the end of the day my friend, You get the advice you pay for. If you want the latest, structured advice on GST, its here. And you have to pay for it.  If you cant afford it right now, hang around the forums until you can. If you dont want to pay for it here- join a crossfit gym.

Most likely you'll end up with a slap tear and you be back here anyway.

You get what you pay for.

I couldn't agree more with you, I know about coach's expertise, I know about the efficiency of the foundations course, I know that you get what you pay for, like I say I do not doubt the courses Im pretty sure they are awesome...

What I said is that a lot of ppl who come on this forum do it because they need advice on their training, they don't come here to get sold a course, no matter how great it may be. It's like asking someone in a store how could I make my shoes look even better and getting replied: buy a new pair...

what I said is a suggestion that would improve the forum for visitors like myself and im sure many others, you can take it or leave it the choice is yours

Like coach said, You can always go seek advice somewhere else and that's most likely what I will do, but thinking this way will just make your forum worse, not better.

hype said:

I couldn't agree more with you, I know about coach's expertise, I know about the efficiency of the foundations course, I know that you get what you pay for, like I say I do not doubt the courses Im pretty sure they are awesome...

What I said is that a lot of ppl who come on this forum do it because they need advice on their training, they don't come here to get sold a course, no matter how great it may be. It's like asking someone in a store how could I make my shoes look even better and getting replied: buy a new pair...

what I said is a suggestion that would improve the forum for visitors like myself and im sure many others, you can take it or leave it the choice is yours

Like coach said, You can always go seek advice somewhere else and that's most likely what I will do, but thinking this way will just make your forum worse, not better.

The people who paid for the programs will not be happy to see that their money was not well spent when someone gets all the information they want for free.

Truth is, every bit of information these days cost money; legal advice, technical support etc. So does strength training. And we just have to get used to the fact that strength training does too.

With that said we still have the kilroy template and I am sure that (even though no one has actually asked for it) specific advice regarding the understanding of that template may be given. And to add, there is a lot of other resources here for free.

But to understand those you need have a bit of knowledge about strength training. If you do not have that, you will either get nowhere or you will get injured. That is also why the courses with a strict routine have been set up - to prevent people from doing stupid things, since a none-strict routine requires a great deal of experience (just see the critics to BtGB). As a raw beginner, if you want to strength train, you need a good routine, and before you try constructing one on your own you need to understand the mechanics first. My point is that when beginners ask for specific advice it does not help them much because they make so many mistakes anyway that the only solution would be a paradigm shift - a whole new routine. And that is not something that should be handed out for free which is the approach this site has chosen.

But there is still the general forums where people can discuss strength training freely. But discussing requires a basic knowledge of how things are which excludes beginners.

So really, the choice has been made for you; beginners NEED a program, from somewhere or someone, but the best program is on this website. Experienced people could BENEFIT from a program but does not need one. They can use the kilroy template and discuss things on the forums, but the more experienced you get the more you see the advantages of foundation series and the ones with the means to buy it do so. And bear in mind that when I say experienced I mean EXPERIENCED and that in my opinion only applies to professionals of some degree.

Now, I know many people do not have the money it takes. The price is quite high if you see the foundation as "just a program" and not what you actually get. I am in the same situation as you; not having any spare money whatsoever and still need some equipment to have a well rounded workout; and just have to do with what I have. I only have F1 which was given to me and nowhere in the near future will I be able to buy H1 and the olympic bar and rings which I need for training. So I feel you.

Another thing though, I never understood why people would disregard a program they deem the best just for the sake of having a none-set routine which is worse than the program. I do not know if that is the attitude of "the journey is more important than the end", but your chance of ever coming to the end is largely reduced; plateauing, injuries and imbalances will most likely be a part of the journey. To that I can only say that people say atleast try to overcome their ego, "strength training is not a buffet", there is only one best way. If people do have the money they should spend them.

Wow, this turned out to be quite long.

tl;dr, I understand how you feel about the money part, but things are the way they have been set. It may exclude some good people because of lack of money, and beginners may not understand the free content, but everything costs money nowadays and we just have to accept that.

I think you got my point very well and I understand yours too. Gotta do with what we have I guess

Great discussion, gentlemen.  With good points on all sides.  I have been especially pleased with the civil tone and the way that everyone has comported themselves.

I would like to point out that the accumulation of my knowledge was not free for myself; it required 40 years, tens upon tens of thousands of hours in the gym developing and working with world/olympic class athletes and countless sacrifices on my own part.  I would also like to point out that I am not simply a coach, but a world class coach.  A trainer of national champions and some of the finest athletes to have ever walked the planet.  In addition to the athletes which I have personally developed, I have also had the opportunity work with more Olympic athletes, Olympic Champions and Olympic Coaches than I can count.  

(As a small aside, my family was once with me as I coached at a US winter national championship and observed me visiting with two of my friends.  As I strolled back over to say something to my wife, one of my daughters was then old enough to recognize the two friends/colleagues I had been visiting with.  "Dad, Dad ... do you know who you were talking to?  You were just visiting with two World and Olympic champions!!!"  I said, "I know, sweetie.  Just what is it that you think Daddy does for a living and who I work with?" ). 

I always find it a little naive when some people feel that my knowledge and services should be available for free.  Other high level professionals are paid for their service (doctors, attorneys, engineers etc).  How is having access to the knowledge and skills of world class gymnastics coach any different?

My athletes each paid over $400 per month for access to me and my knowledge; often times for 10+ years.  The math of their total accumulated tuition per athlete comes to nearly $50,000 in a ten year period.

The few hundred dollars required to purchase the first two courses to get started in GST seems like an incredible bargain to me and one to which I wish I would have had access to as a young coach!

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I once read a really good quote that said "find what you're good at and make it pay".

I guess as a very experienced coach like you, applying such a quote should not be suprising so I very well understand the cost of the foundation courses.

I hope I can afford them one day (first I have to get a job ahah), in the meantime I will try my best to search all over the forum and seek decent progress!

Thank you for making your point clearer!

Coach Sommer said:

Great discussion, gentlemen.  With good points on all sides.  I have been especially pleased with the civil tone and the way that everyone has comported themselves.

 

I would like to point out that the accumulation of my knowledge was not free for myself; it required 40 years, tens upon tens of thousands of hours in the gym developing and working with world/olympic class athletes and countless sacrifices on my own part.  I would also like to point out that I am not simply a coach, but a world class coach.  A trainer of national champions and some of the finest athletes to have ever walked the planet.  In addition to the athletes which I have personally developed, I have also had the opportunity work with more Olympic athletes, Olympic Champions and Olympic Coaches than I can count.  

 

(As a small aside, my family was once with me as I coached at a US winter national championship and observed me visiting with two of my friends.  As I strolled back over to say something to my wife, one of my daughters was then old enough to recognize the two friends/colleagues I had been visiting with.  "Dad, Dad ... do you know who you were talking to?  You were just visiting with two World and Olympic champions!!!"  I said, "I know, sweetie.  Just what is it that you think Daddy does for a living and who I work with?" ). 

 

I always find it a little naive when some people feel that my knowledge and services should be available for free.  Other high level professionals are paid for their service (doctors, attorneys, engineers etc).  How is having access to the knowledge and skills of world class gymnastics coach any different?

 

My athletes each paid over $400 per month for access to me and my knowledge; often times for 10+ years.  The math of their total accumulated tuition per athlete comes to nearly $50,000 in a ten year period.

 

The few hundred dollars required to purchase the first two courses to get started in GST seems like an incredible bargain to me and one to which I wish I would have had access to as a young coach!

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

A point is that for some people including me 80 $ is just a lot of money. While it may be fair for you to charge such a price, and that it is quite a bargain for the information, ones purchases.

Unless you come off wealthy in the first place or save up for the courses through several years of labour a young student would never be able to get the courses. The saying "where there is will, there is way" is just not realistic here.

It may exclude some very talented persons especially of young age, but again, on the one hand it is a balancing between how much profit one would like to/should earn, and on the other hand it is how many people one wishes to include. And I am not even trying to criticize that balancing. I just want to be a clear point.

And as a comparison I think this product is cheap compared to some workshops with other coaches with the price of around 2000$, who do not even come close to the credentials Coach has.

I am really surprised by some of the messages of this board.

I get it : 80$ can be a lot for people who live in countries where the currency is low... for the others 80$ should be affordable.

If you cut down on restaurant and cook yourself, avoid going to the cinema, walk/cycle instead of taking the car everytime, do some undeclared work for a friend or family member, stop buying fancy things to impress strangers or unecessary items, change your cellphone service ...  live a  more frugal life (I am not saying cheap one) !

Then I am pretty sure that you can save enough to buy foundation (which is by the way one of, if not the best strength & mobility program you will never be able to afford)

For the seminars, those are more expensive of course and it can more difficult to save enough for them (it can mean saving for a year or 2 I know).

My personal story.

Almost 1 year ago I had a burnout at work  because :

1) I hated living in a big city

2) I had some ethical issues with the job I had to do.

I quit and decided to find a way to work in the countryside in a more eco-friendly way.

I lived on my savings, travelled a bit in France, tried to connect with new people, payed for some carreer orientation advices, lost some friends, was criticized by my family, ...

The only regular things I was able to keep and which helped me staying mentally sain was GST training.

In the end I didn't succeed (in France the economy is very low especially in the rural areas and they don't like people who want to change their career path to a new one. "You have an engineer diploma then you should work as a computer science consultant and be happy about it"... "No we can't hire you because you are too much qualified for this position", "Sorry but you are not experienced enough"...).

Now I am applying to some job positions that are typically what I hated (big cities, being just a number within your company...) and I am really terrified about it. BUT I need money for living and I would like to be able to attend to one of Coach seminars.

It does not mean that I am giving up on my dreams (unlocking the potential of this old body, doing a job that helps people or helps protect the environment, having a GF , living outside of the city...), it's just that for the moment I have to accept the failure and go back on a "regular job" in order to try again in the future.

It's all about sacrifices.

Some are easier some are tougher.

ps : I am not used to speak openly about personal things on internet and I hope that I didn't bother anyone with this. I guess that I just needed to let it go because, even if it's far from the end of the word, it's a stressful situation for me. As I said, training GST regularly helped me a lot mentally.

MrBrator said:

 

It's all about sacrifices.

Some are easier some are tougher.

 

 

ps : I am not used to speak openly about personal things on internet and I hope that I didn't bother anyone with this. I guess that I just needed to let it go because, even if it's far from the end of the word, it's a stressful situation for me. As I said, training GST regularly helped me a lot mentally.

I like your story very much because it tells something about your human condition and the anchor point GST gave you while trying to get more balance between your economic needs and your “soul” (sorry, I couldn’t find a better word). You do not have to apologize, at least not to me. I highly appreciate that you take the effort with your personal story to point out that the decision of how to spend your money for most (if not all) of us (who, admittedly, are quite privileged) is based on priorities rather than having the money or not.

I, myself have concluded that buying F1, F2 and H1 so far is the best investment I ever made. It has already given me invaluable insights about how my body works (and doesn’t work); it will last me for a lifetime, and save me lots of money that I otherwise would have spend on rehab and physio. 

I wish you good luck, my friend. And happy holidays.

Good luck from me too! I think I know how you feel, I am in a similar situation right now.

I recognize that spending money on things is a prioritization, but sometimes you cannot afford anything but the most basic. I am not self-pitying here, just stating that every situation is individual and that thinking one could prioritize better is a bit arrogant. I do not think you do this at all MrBrator. It is just that people in general should be careful not to make assumption based on their opinions.

Alexander Egebak said:

Good luck from me too! I think I know how you feel, I am in a similar situation right now.

I recognize that spending money on things is a prioritization, but sometimes you cannot afford anything but the most basic. I am not self-pitying here, just stating that every situation is individual and that thinking one could prioritize better is a bit arrogant. I do not think you do this at all MrBrator. It is just that people in general should be careful not to make assumption based on their opinions.

This is exactly my case, I'm still a student I live with my parents we can barely afford my college and I work hard as hell to enter pharmacy program next year... i don't work and The reason why I chose bodyweight over weights is that It costs nothing! And now having to buy all this equipment and courses is surely not easy for me and not even an option for now, but mabey in the future I will!

I'm not trying to call out any of you who really don't have money, but for those in-between, and still undecided, you can get the whole Foundation series for $275 + H1 for $100. At $375, that's pretty much a year-long gym membership (or less) but you get the programme laid out, keep it forever and get guidance from Coach, the staff and other forum members on the material.

Sure you need some equipment but most likely you'll be stuck at some elements and won't need to buy much equipment for a long time.

You could also just get the starter pack (F1+H1)  at $170 or even just F1 to start with at $80. For F1 and the early stages of H1, you can really substitute most equipment with normal stuff you'd have at home (hardest one would be RC).

Again, not trying to call anyone out, just trying to add even more perspective to the discussion.