New push up strategy

So I asked for a weight vest for Christmas. I've been stuck on push ups for over a year and lately my performance has even gotten worse, so I'm thinking I'm going to drop to 5 x 5 with 20 lbs, work my way up to 40 lbs or so, maybe even 60 lbs. then go back to regular push ups. I'm out of ideas here and I'm hoping that increasing my overall strength will help me break through and hit that next level. I'm so discouraged with my push up progress. Thoughts?

There is no need to use additional weights. When your muscles burn, don't give up.

yeah and adding reps in lesser increments is possible as well. this is how i've worked upto 5x36 ABH. 3-6sec increments instead of 12sec. so if 3 rep increments aren't working, add 1-2.

What reps are you at unweighted?

Why has your performance got worse? What else are you working on in Foundation?

I ask because it happened to me due to strenuous sPL work - I have to make sure my shoulders are fresh (and recovered from any sPL work) before doing push ups.

If your form is bad to begin with adding a weight vest will make things worse.

If you need more endurance, Keilani Gutierrez gave you an excellent option.

Ditto all the above.

If you want some more specific advice you'd have to let us know all the things you've tried over the past year as far as set/rep manipulation, other conflicting activities (i.e. nutrition, sleep, sports). 

There's many different ways people have used on here to break plateaus on the earlier PE's, AFAIK adding weight has not been involved.

Adding rest between sets would be cheaper than a weight vest.

Doing less reps, slower and with greater muscle tension is another option that coupled with rest would get you stronger cheaply. Hell, you wouldn't need a weighted vest either. If you REALLY wanted to go that route, throw a weight plate on your upper back, but again, I don't condone that.First off, try to also get stronger at the Xiaoping Forward, that will honestly help your shoulders a lot. After I eventually went from 2.5 lbs to 12.5 lbs, I found myself spinning my wheels with pushups, even though the sets would burn I knew I was just trying to perfect minutiae, so I moved on. And boy is it a bit of a jump. Respect the process, and enjoy the process.

Pushups respond very well to volume training, in my experience.  Do lots and it will carry over.

Two strategies have helped me; I believe I've shared both before.  One is Pushup Pyramids.  Do one pushup, rest for 10sec, then do 2, rest, 3, rest, etc, all the up to 10 and all the way back down.  It's a lot of volume (100 reps) reduced into smaller bites.  At some point you reach technical failure, so stop, and next time you have a goal to beat.  Maybe you got to 8 reps but couldn't get to 9.  Well, strive to reach that next level, and then keep striving.  This really sucks, by the way, but beating your old level feels good, similar to mastering a PE.  It never gets easier, but you will get stronger.

Another idea that works well is Endurance Power Hour.  Whatever your goal is, double it, and you have an hour to get every rep in.  Assuming you are on the final progression, 5x15=75 total reps.  So double that, 150, and do that in an hour.  It works out to 15 reps every six minutes, or 5 reps every two minutes.  It sounds easy, but you will start feeling a burn in the later half.  When you can do that, either add more total reps or do it in less time.  If you can do 300 reps in an hour and/or 150 reps in 30min, you'll likely have all the endurance you need to conquer 5x15 mastery.

I'm a martial arts instructor, and we do lots of pushups.  As part of my blackbelt testing, I need to do 50 consecutive pushups (note that form is not as strict as GB pushups).  The first strategy helped get me to 50 pushups, and the second allowed me to get several sets.  Took me about 4 months of practice.  I test next in 2017, so I'm hoping, with luck, I'll be finished or at least on/near F4, so I can see how GST helps with endurance like this.

My form isn't bad, so adding a weight vest shouldn't make anything worse. I've tried nearly everything that has been mentioned.

I'm not concerned with spending money on a weight vest, I want one for the future anyway and for other stuff. It's just a different strategy to try. Raising overall strength should carry everything else with it on the "strength ladder" so we'll see.

I've been at about 15, 15, 15, 8-10, 6-8 reps for quite a while. The usual scheme wasn't working for me so I have been doing as many reps as possible until form breaks down, 5 sets every workout. This was the same method I use to bust through hinge rows.

kimura said:

My form isn't bad, so adding a weight vest shouldn't make anything worse. I've tried nearly everything that has been mentioned.

I'm not concerned with spending money on a weight vest, I want one for the future anyway and for other stuff. It's just a different strategy to try. Raising overall strength should carry everything else with it on the "strength ladder" so we'll see.

I've been at about 15, 15, 15, 8-10, 6-8 reps for quite a while. The usual scheme wasn't working for me so I have been doing as many reps as possible until form breaks down, 5 sets every workout. This was the same method I use to bust through hinge rows.

Have you tried to put in breaks until you can perform mastery? Then slowly work away that additional rest time.

Alexander Egebak said:

Have you tried to put in breaks until you can perform mastery? Then slowly work away that additional rest time.

I was in the same boat as Kimura (i.e. > 1 yr with the PE), and think that Alex's above strategy got me over the hump. I used to be really strict about not taking any rest (i.e. < 5 seconds) but got frustrated by a lack of improvement, having plateaued for over a year at weeks 9-12, getting the same numbers. 

I only started making progress by resting long enough to complete every set. I wasn't resting 10 minutes between sets mind you, I simply went from < 5 second to maybe 1 to 2 minutes. Once I was able to do 5 x 15 reps that way, I spent another microcycle or two eliminating the rest period. 

In terms the progression I used, I just kept repeating 5 x 13 reps --> 5 x 14 reps --> 5 x 15 reps --> 5 x 8 reps over and over. After a 1 year plateau, I think I mastered this element 3 months after switching strategies.

I really doesn't have any convincing evidence the change in strategies worked, as it's possible that I would have mastered the element after continuing the usual slog for another three months. The one thing I can say is that changing to a stragegy that allowed me to see small amounts of progress despite not yet having achieved mastery was psychologically much easier than failing mastery week after week. It also allowed me to get a little more volume in every session since I was doing the full number of reps with each set. 

Having thought about it, you know, no one here has tried what you're suggesting and reported back, so it may be worthwhile. 

kimura said:

My form isn't bad, so adding a weight vest shouldn't make anything worse. I've tried nearly everything that has been mentioned.

I'm not concerned with spending money on a weight vest, I want one for the future anyway and for other stuff. It's just a different strategy to try. Raising overall strength should carry everything else with it on the "strength ladder" so we'll see.

I've been at about 15, 15, 15, 8-10, 6-8 reps for quite a while. The usual scheme wasn't working for me so I have been doing as many reps as possible until form breaks down, 5 sets every workout. This was the same method I use to bust through hinge rows.

Kimura, having thought about it, I think it would be reasonable to give it a try with the weight vest. MT Nordic had suggested a similar strategy (upping the intensity while keeping the same motor recruitment for 2-3 weeks), but as far as I know, no one has reported their experience with this type of approach. It would be useful for everyone to benefit from your experience if you're willing to try it. 

Here's MT's post on busting plateaus - it's worthwhile reading for anyone struggling with one or more elements. 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/17397-busting-plateaus/?hl=mtnordic#entry165851

Whatever you do, let us know how it goes!

-MR said:

I was in the same boat as Kimura (i.e. > 1 yr with the PE), and think that Alex's above strategy got me over the hump. I used to be really strict about not taking any rest (i.e. < 5 seconds) but got frustrated by a lack of improvement, having plateaued for over a year at weeks 9-12, getting the same numbers. 

 

I only started making progress by resting long enough to complete every set. I wasn't resting 10 minutes between sets mind you, I simply went from < 5 second to maybe 1 to 2 minutes. Once I was able to do 5 x 15 reps that way, I spent another microcycle or two eliminating the rest period. 

 

In terms the progression I used, I just kept repeating 5 x 13 reps --> 5 x 14 reps --> 5 x 15 reps --> 5 x 8 reps over and over. After a 1 year plateau, I think I mastered this element 3 months after switching strategies.

 

I really doesn't have any convincing evidence the change in strategies worked, as it's possible that I would have mastered the element after continuing the usual slog for another three months. The one thing I can say is that changing to a stragegy that allowed me to see small amounts of progress despite not yet having achieved mastery was psychologically much easier than failing mastery week after week. It also allowed me to get a little more volume in every session since I was doing the full number of reps with each set. 

Yes, the key point here is to see progress. It is the motivation factor that might give that little extra effort.

And also, one should not slack on it check the mastery with the additional rest time. It must end up eliminated.

I will definitely report back! I have never tried the increased rest times but that's a great idea, I may actually give that a try at some point. I've always been very strict about my rest times as well.

But rest times, resistance, these are all just variables we can play with. When you've been at a plateau for so long, you have to get a little creative.

From personal experience with the Pre-BUD/s Warning Order, when I had to do 15 sets of 20 push ups I frequently took a few seconds rest staying in the push up position in between repetitions. 

Rayne-William said:

From personal experience with the Pre-BUD/s Warning Order, when I had to do 15 sets of 20 push up I frequently took a few seconds rest at the staying in the push up position in between repetitions. 

....whoa.